Rate the Florida School

<p>Interesting set of rankings posted. Note that US News rankings are missing. FSU lists their various rankings on their webpage. It's easy to find, but I'll post a link here: <a href="http://fsu.edu/highlights/rankings.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://fsu.edu/highlights/rankings.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>As with any rankings, all must be taken with a grain of salt. FSU even posts a disclaimer about rankings on their list:</p>

<p>"FSU College Highlights and Selected National Rankings</p>

<p>Rankings offer one perspective—often limited—on the quality of programs within the university. There is no single agreed-upon method of ranking either colleges and universities or their programs. Assessing quality is notoriously difficult and subject to all manner of pitfalls. More detail on the various groups and methods of ranking colleges, universities and rankings is available at <a href="http://www.library.uiuc.edu/edx/rankbib.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.library.uiuc.edu/edx/rankbib.htm&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p>

<p>Students should review rankings with care and should evaluate a college, university or program against their own needs to determine where they will fit best. In any case, students should remember that quality is not a simple proposition. "All things excellent are as difficult as they are rare." (Spinoza, Ethics, Pt. V, Prop. 42)"</p>

<p>Yea one should take rankings with a grain of salt. FSU's site is a great example. FSU last year was unranked so their top 25 ranking for the biz school must be extremely old. atleast 2 or 3 years old because this year FSU is #45. the same applies for other schools. FSU has been falling academically over the past few years and the rankings do show for it. I though that it was just the overall ranking. Now i know that that the overall ranking does correlate with individual programs as well. FSU's business program has fallen tremendously, as have other programs in the ranking. </p>

<p>I did not post the US News rankings because you were mentioning them earlier: "FSU and UF have the best Biz schools." </p>

<p>in US News, FSU is ranked slightly higher than UM when it comes to business.
UM is ranked number 50 while FSU is ranked #45. however anywhere else, FSU is unranked. last year US News didnt rank FSU. </p>

<p>Business week and Wall Street Journal are both very credible sources.
They are the premier business magazines in America. I feel that theydiscuss more in detail the business programs specifically than US News does and thus are a better source to use. US News just ranks the biz schools but offers little individual perspective on the schools. In business week, they have a profile for every school. the profile contains a ton of information and by viewing it, its ranking many times becomes clear. </p>

<p>As for the overall undergrad rankings, there is no dispute that US News are the leading rankings. However for individual programs, one should also consider other sources as well that provide more insight on the individual program.</p>

<p>Businessweek's rankings are ********.</p>

<p>I cant say I agree with u. They provide lots of information about the school. average salaries, admissions, alumni, curriculum etrc... why dont u take a look at it.</p>

<p>Want to add to seminoles statements.</p>

<p>you talk a lot about individual programs and are very skeptical about selectivity of schools, overall US News rankings, which comes of little surprise to me: FSU is not that selective (princeton review has even given it a party school rep) while the school overall is close to the 3rd tier.
FSU then adds individual rankings of the school to let students know that overall rankings matter little. what matters are the individual programs. Yet their data they use to on their website is so outdated.
i'll list several examples but in reality they are all extremely outdated because i checked:</p>

<p>The Law School:
They dont mention the overall ranking of the law school in US News which does exist. its in the 70's while UM is in the 60's.
However they do mention certain rankings which I hope are not fabrications because I have yet to find them searching the rankings of 3 years back. </p>

<p>FSU currently dosnt show in the top Environmental law and Tax law in the US News Grad school magazine.
they also they they are a top 10 law school overall by the hispanicbusiness for law schools however I checked and it dosnt show up.
<a href="http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/news/newsbyid.asp?id=17784%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/news/newsbyid.asp?id=17784&lt;/a>
However to my suprise UM shows up as #2 :) UF comes in as #3
So what makes the law school so good? its ranked in one thing: 70's overall in US News.
UM and UF law is ranked higher not only by US News but by other soucres:</p>

<p>Lawdragon:
<a href="http://www.lawdragon.com/index.php/newdragon/fullstory/law_school_update/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.lawdragon.com/index.php/newdragon/fullstory/law_school_update/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<ul>
<li>UM: 18 <em>29</em></li>
<li>UF: 23 <em>23</em></li>
</ul>

<p>This ranking also lists the amount of highly successfull lawyers such schools have released. * represents the number for each.</p>

<p>The law school and Business schools are just examples of how outdated those rankings that FSU states are. FSU's law school is now unraked in everything mentioned. off course they wont wanna get rid of most of the rankings they have placed because the page would be almost empty. so they leave them there. sneakinessss....
I have one point: Overall ranking (the one Noles ignores) matters a ton. Look at FSU, as it plummets the overall rankings, the individual rankings have also fallen over the year where many are now unranked that used to be ranked.
FSU can no longer boast that many programs individually being highly ranked.
As we see Business, law and Medecine at FSU go mostly unmentioned anywhere but US News were they dont recieve the best ranking as they are only ranked 70 overall in law and 45 in business.
Engineering is not a strength at UM either.
Although most individual programs have begun to die just as the overall ranking of the school by US news has, some programs still stand strong:</p>

<ul>
<li>Education, Criminology and Hotel management. the rankings at these schools posted by FSU are still relatively up to date. Also film school is still strong. however other than that, I see little more in FSU's individual programs. they used to be good as you saw in their web page but if u check them out, they are no longer ranked.
So they dont have many individual programs ranked that well and they are ranked almost 3rd tier overall... what do they offer other than the few programs listed above? Princeton review says a great party school with great football..... true.... and easy to get into as well.... anything else?</li>
</ul>

<p>
[quote]
I cant say I agree with u. They provide lots of information about the school. average salaries, admissions, alumni, curriculum etrc... why dont u take a look at it.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Unless there's a huge scandal or something--What could cause a school to drop 7+ spots after a year? Makes no sense.</p>

<p>acarta,</p>

<p><a href="http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/law/brief/lawrank_brief.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/law/brief/lawrank_brief.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>UF: #47
FSU: #53
UM: #70</p>

<p>2noles, I do have a lot of experience with other boards and feel I have a pretty good idea on what is a personnel attack is and what moderators won’t tolerate. That being said, if you feel it was a personnel attack, my apologies, nothing more than a lively debate and a little innocent fun was intended. </p>

<p>No MBA, I hold no bitterness to FSU due to a non-acceptance. I would have loved to have gone to FSU, however the death of my Dad in HS and the need to support my widowed mother forced me to join the military, not go out of town for school. As for “attacking” FSU as 2noles suggests, please check one of my first replies to 2noles:</p>

<p>“Hey, your kids are getting a great education at FSU, just don't try and denigrate the education our children are getting at other Florida universities that happen to be ranked higher or are more selective than FSU.”</p>

<p>OK, if that’s an attack (“great education”), some people have stayed in a comfort zone too long. Comparing schools on certain factors is healthy competition, not attacking, unless PC has run amok (on second thought…) </p>

<p>So if I am perhaps guilty of perhaps a little too vigorous a defense of UF/UM by bringing up a bunch of stats, you FSU posters are just as guilty of the same offense. It is said there are Lies, $&#*Lies, and Statistics. We all use them to make our point, but we all know we won’t change each other’s mind. 2noles thinks UM can’t compete with FSU, yet USNWR has them in the same category and ranks UM 50+ spots higher. No matter, 2noles will believe what they want to believe and THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. 2noles finds one stat at the web site and I find another. The FSU web site says on one page they admitted 4000+ freshmen and in another (T.K.’s budget cut announcement) says over 6,000. Is FSU hiding something? No, just the same as the Miami’s CDS issue isn’t a ploy. I could play the paradox of on one hand the FSU boosters want to point out how their big state university has all these resources, yet then make budget cuts seem like a synergistic hook up with UF. Nah, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.</p>

<p>My purpose was to balance things out and stick up for UM/UF; schools I believe have many advantages over FSU. Did I ever say FSU can’t compete with or was an “odd duck” (really an “odd Ibis!)? Compared to UM? No. Full Disclosure: I have an out of state child going to UM in the fall, who was also accepted to UF. FSU? Let’s just say Tallahassee lost that one, not FSU. Full Disclosure #2: Their cousin, another top student, IS going to FSU and I was one of the biggest boosters of the school to them, even helping to persuade their family it was the right move even it was out-of-state. So, no MBA, my child is not going to a Baghdad university, but you did hear right, the schools are improving over there and now large numbers of women, not just the select few can get an education. If you get a chance, you need to see it first hand, Katie Couric won’t tell you. Many other FSU grads have served with distinction and my child may get the chance also. Seriously, people with you qualifications are needed desperately.</p>

<p>Full disclosure #3: I am not affiliated in any way with UM. I am flattered 2noles would think that, I am only a fan and soon to be parent. I couldn’t fill the shoes of the UM people, they are top-notch. Also, my comment posted concerning UM admissions was MY impression, not UM policy. In fact, UMs in-state recruiters do an awesome job and if I implied otherwise, I am sorry. UM shouldn’t be derided for recruiting nationally. I believe a private school in St. Louis started doing this a number of years back, along with direct mailings and substantial merit money. UM is now doing this same thing. Trust me, the “U” out of state presence is big and growing larger. Oh, the university in St. Louis? You see it listed next to the top schools in the country now, Washington University in St. Louis. People probably didn’t think it could compete either.</p>

<p>Finally, T.K. Sorry, he used his “getting out on point” briefing as a political event as much as an informational briefing (nice “something’s got to give banner” how much did that cost?). UCF President Hitt did no such grandstanding when he announced UCF’s cuts. T.K. is shopping his democratic governor candidacy as much as anything else. I hope he runs, Crist will kick his tail. Widowed mothers can’t pay for T.K.’s extravagancies.</p>

<p>No sweat. Post away.</p>

<p>Welcome to the debate. :)</p>

<p>Acarta, the biz week rankings are volatile. Many FSU rankings given are versus publics and occasionally versus all.</p>

<p>But feel free - anyone - to find where U Miami posts their CDS like FSU and UF do.</p>

<p>Not sure why FSU's Wetherell is an issue, but I don't believe UCF's president Hitt has led much on anything as compared to Wetherell teaming with UF's Machen on the differential tuition law. I can guess that a "mission leap" school like UCF, as led by Hitt's administration, was quite upset that we effectively have a tier structure now in Florida. The Senator from Orlando, a UCF alum, did what he could to try and stop the law, that's certain. </p>

<p>I see it as someone needs to be the leader and Wetherell has done the job on some issues. As an alumnus I see other things for him to do, but establishing some order in the Florida SUS was needed. I'm still quite unsure how the BOG approved two new medical schools in the current budget environment which apparently was unprecedented per the Pappas Report. Florida should long have had a tier structure in my opinion with the flagship schools (UF and FSU) at the top. Miami, as a private school, does not really figure into this analysis...except that if these new medical programs are funded, then taxpayer dollars should probably be spent on the public university of FIU med and not the private U Miami.</p>

<p>Oh - no derision intended with regard to UMiami recruiting nationally. They have to do what they can to survive. I think comments about Miami having perhaps a better national reputation than Florida's publics has some truth due to Miami's historic more national focus. However, that reputation was more "Suntan U" oriented than "Yale" oriented.</p>

<p>i think one of the admins needs to set up a poll and have people vote between UF, UM, and FSU...cuz we are all biased here. We need outside opinion.</p>

<p>there are plenty of outside sources.
US News is one:</p>

<p>here is what they say along with other ppl the surveyed:</p>

<ul>
<li>UF -47-</li>
<li>UM -54-</li>
<li>FSU -110-</li>
</ul>

<p>any other outside sources that rank the florida school?</p>

<p>btw, f we can get that vote thin going, that would be kool. Wonder how though? :)</p>

<p>Quote:
"The law school and Business schools are just examples of how outdated those rankings that FSU states are. FSU's law school is now unraked in everything mentioned. off course they wont wanna get rid of most of the rankings they have placed because the page would be almost empty. so they leave them there. sneakinessss...."</p>

<p>The rankings are not outdated. GatorEng posted the current law school rankings, and they are correct. The FSU COB is ranked higher than UM's per USnews, and those are the current rankings. Those are the facts. We can all start posting different rankings which give our school the highest rating, but this debate will just keep going around in circles.</p>

<p>We all agree that UM is a great school with excellent programs. Anyone who can afford it should really consider it as an option. I'm actually looking into the International Administration program at UM (MAIA) which is very unique. The program is very different than an MBA and focuses more on world affairs. I hear good things about this program and it sounds very interesting.
Acarta, have you heard anything about this program, good or bad?</p>

<p>hmm not really. how unique is it. if its a really unique program I would be careful because many employers might not give it as much value as an MBA even though it may be more rigourous. Know wat I mean?
u might wanna post that question in the UM thread. mayby someone will know more about it.
I have not yet begun looking into Grad programs yet as im a rising freshman :P</p>

<p>Acarta, I don't think Miami's a weak school. It's a fine school and the best private in Florida. It has the best med program, too (would like for my daughter to consider it...but it's Miami, not UMiami, that's the issue for her).</p>

<p>Undergrad-wise, it's # 2 behind UF for now. It kills me as an FSU alumnus to say that, but rankings do change and FSU has some work in the undergrad area to do to close the current gap. </p>

<p>If that's your school, it's a great school and you'll do well to study there. :)</p>