<p>During the argument about econ job placement, 45 percenter and a couple others tried to explain to Princetondreams that studying econ can mean many different things, not just working in business or finance or at a BB.</p>
<p>That’s very true, however, those are my career aspirations. Screwed or no?</p>
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<p>No. Penn is great, and if you’re interested in Business and show that interest, you will get your opportunities. Just don’t expect to be showered with offers like your peers at Wharton. Also, it sucks to say this because I have so much respect for Penn as an institution, but you will be a second-class citizen if you enter CAS or SEAS with the intent of going into Finance, or business in general. I, personally, would hate to go into college where my friends are given such a huge advantage in landing their dream job, just because they are in a different department. It would be the deal-breaker for me.</p>
<p>^ But that’s just you. It doesn’t have to be a deal-breaker for the OP.</p>
<p>As for your question about Wharton kids wearing Wharton-brand t-shirts, etc, I think that that has less to do with feeling superior to other Penn students and more to do with avoiding questions about why we’re going to Penn State (a perfectly respectable institution, by the way). At least, that’s my take on it.</p>
<p>Anyway, to the OP- Everything that I’ve heard about Penn and experienced first-hand since I was accepted in December indicates that once you get to campus, all Penn undergrads are treated equally. Also, I know a current senior who is an econ major in the College and who received two job offers during OCR (on-campus recruiting). She has said that the fact that Wharton attracts so many finance-related companies to Penn only benefitted her job search. From her experience, then, I think it’s fair to say that if you do well at Penn and actively pursue the job you want, Wharton’s presence won’t be a detriment to you.</p>
<p>I also think, OP, that you’re the one who has been having a tough time deciding between Penn and Cornell? I really, really hope you decide to come to Penn if it feels like the better fit for you. Best of luck with your decision :)</p>
<p>Regarding the shirt question, it’s not just Wharton. SEAS people also wear their own shirts. What does it imply? Nothing besides pride in one’s school.</p>
<p>If anything slightly influences the social structure, it’s frats, but even that doesn’t lead to some rigid social structure.</p>
<p>Yeah I’m the one deciding between Penn and Cornell, although it hasn’t really been a decision for a long time now…I’m set on Penn. I like almost everything about Penn better, and it seems like recruiting opportunities out of Penn CAS are better than out of Cornell. Tell me if I’m mistaken.</p>
<p>The only thing I’m thinking about is if in the offchance I get accepted off of Duke’s or Dartmouth’s waitlist. I would really hate having to change my school choice so late, especially when I would have already fallen in love with Penn, learned people going there, and paid the deposit. But if its gonna help my career THAT much more…?</p>
<p>Every school has their ‘thing.’ If you’re going to be successful, you’re going to be successful. It’s not the school that makes your career, it’s you taking advantage of the opportunities the school gives you. There’s a reason super successful people come out of non-“premier” schools…it’s about how hard you work. I bet you would be successful even if you went to your state college. Just enjoy yourself! If you’re happy with Penn, take yourself off the waitlists. If Dartmouth is your dream school, stay on. But stop worrying so much =)</p>
<p>@PrincetonDreams:</p>
<p>“If there wasn’t a social hierarchy at Penn, why would these guys feel the need to advertise their Whartonite status so much?”</p>
<p>There are many reasons people wear shirts with various logos on them that have nothing to do with social hierarchy, such as school spirit, support for your team, favorite artist, etc… Wharton is the best know of the colleges at Penn, so naturally many people would wear that. Of course, some students will wear a Wharton shirt because they think it will impress other students, but that doesn’t mean that they are correct or that this implies there is a social hierarchy. And, of course some guys might feel the need to advertise their Wharton status to compensate for other “shortcomings” 
IMO, to conclude from this that there is a “social hierarchy” is quite a stretch.</p>
<p>As a college grad I wore Wharton shirts and Penn Nursing shirts all the time. What’s the big deal?</p>
<p>So I’ll be honest, what school you’re in doesn’t really come up all that often.</p>
<p>There is no standing around as a hopeless College student watching your Wharton peers enjoy wild success. Wharton students tend to get higher salaries out of college for pretty good reasons. First, business degrees are designed to be terminal degrees; you can choose to continue your education, but for the most part, you will have a LOT of success as someone with a business degree without any need to get any other degrees. College students’ jobs are, on average, lower paying than Wharton students’ since the Bachelor of Arts degree is, by nature, a non-terminal degree: graduates go on to graduate or professional school at almost 40%, so it is acceptable to start a job in an industry such as law, research or medicine, which pays VERY handsomely to those with professional degrees but rather poorly to recent graduates of Bachelors programs.</p>
<p>If you do some research, you’ll find that Wharton students tend to get slightly more salary to start off than College students, when you only look at people who do not plan to pursue higher education (with the exception of those interested in seeking MBAs, since companies often sponsor employees to get their MBA, allowing them to be full time employees and full time students at the same time). Why? They know more than College students about the private sector.</p>
<p>I wear shirts from other schools, by the way. Nobody cares. Everyone jokes that Whartonites sold their souls, engineers are robots, college students sit around doing arts and crafts all day, and nurses are crazy. It’s rather fun!</p>
<p>Also, to PrincetonDreams, hope you enjoy the rest of senior year… make sure the senior slide happens… it’s the most fun you’ll have in high school!</p>
<p>Pardon my ignorance – what is BB and MBB (internships)</p>
<p>do whartonites have access to a set of recruiters that the CAS does not?</p>
<p>No, they do not. Career Services for Wharton is the same suite as Career Services for the College, and although many recruiters are looking for business students for OCR, they will offer interviews to anybody who they think may help their company.</p>
<p>“There is no standing around as a hopeless College student watching your Wharton peers enjoy wild success.”</p>
<p>What exactly do you mean by this chrisw? Your entire post seemed to make the Wharton degree much much more beneficial to someone than a College degree, which I’m sure is true.</p>
<p>But how is one’s difficulty of attaining similar success through College Econ?</p>
<p>If you get off Dartmouth and Duke’s waitlists, then definitely go there. Otherwise, choose based on fit between Penn CAS and Cornell, unless you got into AEM.</p>
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<p>Definitely agree with the last post. It’s easier to transfer into AEM than it is to transfer into Wharton and AEM is very good.</p>
<p>PrincetonDreams makes me ill.</p>
<p>I chose Wharton over Stanford because I wanted the tight-knit community centered on similar academic and professional interests that Wharton provided, the academic programs matched my interests more closely, and I want to live and work in the northeast. I went to the multicultural scholar’s weekend so I spent three days on campus, and I can sum up my experience as this: I arrived on campus feeling as if having “Penn” attached to “Wharton” was spoiling its prestige, and left with 4 Penn shirts and 1 Wharton shirt. </p>
<p>There is a small minority of suit-wearing frat boys who will live up to the elitist, cutthroat image of Wharton for sure. But the vast majority of Wharton seems completely self-aware of its image, and Penn does a surprisingly good job of preventing institutionalized elitism. I would venture though that when it comes to OCR, you’re going to have a tough time competing for IB jobs with Wharton kids who actually concentrated in Financial Instruments and Portfolio Management.</p>
<p>I do want to say that this is what I gained from just three days there; unlike some (PrincetonDreams), I do not tout my limited perspective as definitive fact.</p>
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<p>That’s exactly the opposite of what I intended to say. </p>
<p>Business degrees are inherently different from liberal arts degrees. Business degrees are practical; you get a foundation in how business works, but you forgo the theoretical aspects of academic disciplines. The reverse, of course, is true with liberal arts degrees. So that means if two people are applying to the same job, the business student will have the advantage of knowing how business works, whereas the liberal arts student will have the advantage of a critical thought process. This is not to say that business students know no theory, nor that liberal arts students know no business, but it is to say that they have different strengths. Both have an advantage, but neither are necessarily more qualified to get a job.</p>
<p>The reason that CAS students have lower average salaries out of undergraduate is the types of jobs they look for.</p>
<p>For example, many political science/history/PPE majors intend to go to law school, but they don’t want to do so directly out of college. To bolster their resume and get legal experience, they may become legal assistants or paralegals, but these jobs generally pay around $35,000-$45,000 per year. In ten years, they will likely be in the mid six figures with a law degree. People interested in, say, medical research, may get a research job at HUP, which won’t pay all that much but will get them great experience for applying to medical or graduate school.</p>
<p>On the other hand, most Wharton students are going to go directly into careers, which means they will earn higher starting salaries. A starting salary for a consultant or investment banker in NYC is usually $65,000 to $75,000, but they may not rise as quickly as someone with a professional degree such as a JD.</p>
<p>The benefit of Penn is that CAS students have the OPTION of doing OCR and getting jobs aimed at Wharton students – something like 20% of CAS students go into investment banking right out – just as Wharton students have the OPTION of pursuing professional or graduate school.</p>
<p>The point is that one-year-out numbers are deceiving. If you were to survey ONLY people who intended to begin their careers right out of college, CAS and Wharton salaries would be essentially the same, since everyone is applying to the same jobs.</p>
<p>Do you want to hear a funny story? When D applied and was accepted to the business school of Penn, I didn’t memorize the “Wharton” part of the name. We visited the campus twice before application, still we didn’t know how special the school was. D applied to business schools here and there because she thinks she will do business. When we visited Penn on a Preview Day, Wharton people never talked about how special they were.</p>
<p>Now I begin to realize that she’s going to attend A REALLY SPECIAL SCHOOL. WOW and LOL! At the Penn bookstore, D wanted to buy a “NOT PENN STATE” shirts, but no Wharton shirts. The business school is a part of Penn. Period!</p>
<p>typdad,</p>
<p>Anyone who has any real knowledge of Penn would agree with you. It’s primarily high school students like PrincetonDreams–who is in the UK, and not even in the US–who make these ridiculous assertions based on pure, unsubstantiated hearsay, and quite limited hearsay at that! Hopefully, when PD gets to Stanford, he’ll learn to be a bit more critical, intellectual, and enlightened in his thinking (at least as it’s been displayed on CC).</p>
<p>And big congratulations! Your daughter is about to attend the oldest and most prestigious undergraduate business program in the world, and a fabulous university of terrific breadth and depth. :)</p>
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<p>How does me being in the UK make a difference?</p>
<p>Penn’s great, but the institutional hierarchy there just ruins so many students’ experiences.</p>