<p>i appreciate all the comments…i guess i should have used more examples other than text…i use “my son”, rather than our son, when talking because i am the one posting …lol…courtesy and respect is the issue and his anger is expressed with disrespect…he has been grounded, phone taken away, money taken away, work punishment, laptop taken away, x-box packed up for weeks on end, etc…he gets much better after discipline and has made progress…i do talk to each of them separately and we (mom and dad) do generally put on a unified front…things have improved very much…what our son fails to see is that his mothers questions are just interest in his life and what is going on…a few years ago the same questions had a different motive and meaning…now his mother is just wanting to participate in his life some before he leaves…i have talked to our son about that…our son will respond to a call or text or the phone will be taken away…so we always can get him on the phone …our son drives 50 miles round trip to high school every day and has ever since the day he got his drivers license…this made both of us very nervous prompting me to place a GPS system in his vehicle before i ever gave it to him telling me how fast he is going and exactly where he is in “one minute intervals”…i bought him a big,really safe crew cab truck because it was rated the safest vehicle on the road at the time…i also provide unlimited gasoline so all his friends will ride in his truck rather than someone elses…as a result, i know where he is every minute of the day and my wife does also…she thinks he should send a text every time he goes from one location to the other because he doesn’t know that we know (the courtesy concern)…I want to see what he does on his own while he is thinking that we do not know…that is a conflicting issue with us…occasionally, we will look to see where he is and text him and ask him where he is and make sure he is telling the truth…he thinks i implanted a device in his wheel that relays the speed he is going to a satellite that goes to a answering service that calls me if he goes over 65 mph…however, he does not know that we know where he is located …if he goes over 65 mph, he loses his truck for a day… he has been to some places that we do not approve of and, miraculously, we happen to have a family friend spot his vehicle and call us out of concern which results in the loss of his truck for a week or so …other times he has not told the truth but we let it go so as not to raise suspicion…we were able to give him enough rope to hang himself and still have time at home to address the issues with him…as a result, he feels much more independent than he otherwise would (IMO)…he will now be going to a top 50 university that does not allow freshman to have automobiles… we will lose the close supervision that we have had…he will never know the difference…the GPS surveillance was totally out of love for our child and we did not view it as spying…we needed to know what kind of decisions he was making before we could no longer do much about it…i highly recommend it…</p>
<p>May I guess that your S is simply embarassed in front of his friends to have that phone go off in their company, and watch him have to return a text message to his mommy.
Have you explored all the ways to send and receive a text without much awareness by those in his company (for example, using “vibrate” rather than ringtones, and let him reply just by clicking one random letter while the phone is still in his pocket.) </p>
<p>I made a positive breakthrough with each of my kids during college at their first visit home freshman year, when this came up after they’d lived under significant unaccountability day-by-day from us, yet returned home for a week-long visit to our home.</p>
<p>I explained, in normal conversational tones one evening, that they have observed how we (mom and dad) let each other know where the other is, and that is the definition of treating each other like adults and not children. Welcome him to the world of adulthood. </p>
<p>Also, please ask no more or less of him than you do for each other. Do you always text your wife when you relocate from place to place, or does she just have a general idea of where you are for the day, and if any huge changes occur (such as - I’m not at work, I’m going rock climbing alone instead) then you give her a courtesy call.</p>
<p>Your reason and wife’s needs to shift from monitoring his behavior (as you did with the GPS and truck, when a bit younger) to asking for his respectful courtesy as a fellow-member of a mature household together. I think you and your wife need to come to terms with why this is SO important to her. If it’s a last chance to monitor how he’ll use his upcoming freedom…I think give that battle up. The die is cast. You probably did a good job and might just believe more in your past upbringing of him over nearly 2 decades than last-minute tweaks during the summer of his l8th year. </p>
<p>If your motivation is actually simply to maintain adult-style household courtesy, and not to get in a final shot of supervising/correcting a teen you fear might not always be responsible…THEN I think it’s a reasonable request that he and your wife communicate once before (not throughout) each social evening. Plus, one extra call IF his plans change a lot midway through the evening (like he’s going to be several hours later than originally thought). </p>
<p>If your wife asks him constantly and in a verbose way about what he’s up to all the time, he will conflate that into thinking the “where I’m going/when I’ll be back” is part of that same syndrome. You might need to separate out the two things - get your wife not to ask him so constantly what he’s doing throughout the day for “no” reason, AND teach him to recognize that her request about social whereabouts for the evening is different - has to do with overall household respect, safety and accountability. </p>
<p>I guess I think your wife and your son have some legitimacy on each of their points of view. Can you be the peacemaker?</p>
<p>Whoa. I must admit that I’m pretty speechless.</p>
<p>You treated your kid like a criminal and you are upset that he doesn’t appreciate your authoritarian rule?</p>
<p>I don’t know too many teenagers (or adults for that manner) who would willingly and happily cooperate in a police state. Sheesh.</p>
<p>Major, major trust issues going on and it sounds like it’s a problem not just with the kid, IMO.</p>
<p>Yeah, the facts change everything.</p>
<p>I ‘should’ add that courtesy and respect go both ways.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I realize it is the social norm and expectation in most marriages for husband and wife to stick together as a unified front and I’m fine with that, but I think every couple has a right to decide what norms to follow. The key is for the couple to be on the same page.</p>
<p>In our marriage and in our family with just one kid (a very mature 18 year old daughter), we have reached a point where we are comfortable advocating on behalf of the kid to the other parent in front of the kid, if we think that is in order. Our daughter is also free to weigh in on the side of one or the other parent if there is a disagreement between the parents, even if the disagreement doesn’t concern her. Now this is unusual, but it works for us, probably because we are a very tight family, an even tighter marriage, and because we know our daughter is very mature. The advice she has given us, her parents, has been enormously valuable for us on issues that have nothing to do with her. </p>
<p>One consequence for us is that if both parents <em>do</em> take one position in opposition to the kid’s position, she knows that it is not just because we are trying to present a united front, but because we do independently feel that way.</p>
<p>My grandmother once told me why teenagers act so surly. “It’s Mother Nature’s way of making sure you don’t miss them when they leave the nest”. Wise words.</p>
<p>The OP and his wife definitely need to be on the same page parenting-wise, but they also need to allow their son some adult freedoms. If they treat him with respect, he most likely will start to respond in kind. But if they act like jail wardens, interrogating him and monitoring his every more, then he will have good reason to rebel. Focus on improving polite and respectful communication. Tell him that you will trust him as long as he doesn’t lie to you, or act recklessly. He needs time to prepare for the freedom that he will have when he goes away to college. If he learns to responsibly handle those freedoms now, he will have more success in college.</p>
<p>Wow, do I empathize with this situation. Our boy/girl twins are now juniors and I remember ( and believe it or not) continue to struggle with the issues of the OP. As some have said here, sons and their moms are different than the bonds with moms and daughters ( IMO). I felt such incredible loss when they both left-but on different levels, so to speak. Our son, always a considerate and thoughtful young person who was great about letting us know his plans, whereabouts, in high school-suddenly went phone/email quiet for the first 2 weeks. DD was better about keeping touch, but my pain was palpable. I kept thinking this wonderful child did not need me anymore-when in reality, DH and I had prepared him to be independent and make good decisions. As his time away at college has grown, he has been very open about what his experience is like, other kids, etc. </p>
<p>The weekend we took our kids to college, DH was beside himself and I was the one putting on the happy face. When the RA’s gave parents the time we were to all clear out, I was sure that would be the end of both of us. The one thing that made an enormous difference is DH and I had an agreement we would be calm and stoic in from of D and S and that from that point on we would invoke a “no sorries” policy when we were home alone. Knowing that I could cry, scream, or sit in one of their rooms sobbing without having to apologize to my DH helped me to cope much better than many friends going through the same process.</p>
<p>It is important to remember that you may experience some of the same reactions from yo and your son over Christmas holidays or especially summer break. Loving your kids doesn’t change, IMO. However, your ability to handle the stress of separation or disagreements will change. I had a dear friend who had a quote on her desk at work for many years that I often find myself repeating when it comes to this subject: “Don’t force the river, it flows by itself.”</p>
<p>smile12157, the shock of reading your clarification post, #44, has worn off and I’ve finally thought of something to say. Thank god the college won’t let him take his car as a freshman, at last he’ll have a little autonomy.</p>
<p>Bop, don’t be so sure. There are always trackable ankle bracelets. I’m thinking Jack Byrnes ala “Meet The Parents” though it would be tracking their own kid not a future “in law.” :)</p>
<p>“I have a really good line of communication with my son right now…”
Meaning the surveillance devices?
I"m sorry, but unless your son has a criminal record, this is indescribably out of line.</p>
<p>Here is the answer to this problem:
[YouTube</a> - Twitteleh](<a href=“Twitteleh - YouTube”>Twitteleh - YouTube)</p>
<p>On the one hand you’ve had ongoing problems with S being so disrespectful or worse to point of removing all privileges. Then you say things have improved but your S still resists things like letting his mother know where he’ll be. You think your son shouldn’t have to tell his mom where he is going or when. Maybe a couple of years ago, but not at this stage. Then you turn around and say that you’ve tracked where he is all along and that you think it’s a good idea. You and your wife are asking just to make conversation and/ or see if he tells the truth. Is that right or is there more to the story?</p>
<p>Bottom line, if I had concerns to the level that warranted these actions based on an earlier breach of trust, or just because of all the extensive driving he does, either I would not allow him to drive one of my cars at all or be up front that the car has the gps.</p>
<p>OP, there is a lesson to be learned here. Never reveal sources and methods of espionage. Especially on a chat group that gets archived. LOL! </p>
<p>Trust me on the humor front I mentioned earlier. Your family needs it. Good luck.</p>
<p>i come from a family that parties non stop…i got out of the rat race 24 years ago, 5 years before our child was born and 3 years in to my marriage. I have been clean and sober for 24 years…i had to know what choices our child was choosing. I had to know he was and is free of drugs, i was able to nip those problems ( a few) in the bud (no pun intended…lol) he did experiment several times before giving it up…i drug tested him every time the GPS saw his truck full of his buddies riding slowly on the levee of the river (2 or 3 miles an hour) they would come to the house and it was straight to the bathroom for a drug check followed by a three week grounding with no truck or anything electronic. he could study, read or play the keyboards or talk to us. during these time we talked more than any other time and he listened. i told him my past experiences and how it robbed me of some of the intellectual paths that i once thought of pursuing. this happened several times with the consequences stiffer each go around. He plays 4 sports and makes A’s with a few B’s. he is a Eagle scout. he finally woke up last fall and realized the he was going to school next fall. he originally intended on going to a state school with over 50% scholarship available. Suddenly, without warning or any discussion with us, he applies to a private top 50 university with a <25% acceptance rate. this was the first time that i had seen my son step up to the plate and actually want something academically. we took him to visit and we all fell in love with the school. he applied in late November and was accepted in early January. No scholarships for us, but i told my son that i would do my part and pay the 1/4 million if he would do his part ;study hard, apply yourself, no drugs,etc…and sooo…this is where we are…i know i rambled…really do not talk about this much…appreciate you listening</p>
<p>It seems there is a lot of advice from parents who have children in various stages of college. Senior year is NOT college, although I remember many, many families in our area started the mantra “well, they are going to be doing it next year anyhow”- drove me crazy. Every year in a teenagers life is equal to dog years, so in my mind you try to hold on to Superman’s cape as long as you can. For some reason they think “I’m a senior” (I wish I could convey the sneer in those words!) To which I would reply to my accepted to top 30 college student - “I don’t give a sh**, I want you to be a freshman next year!” And around and around we went. Most honest explanation I ever got from one of my S mother’s was “I know you are right, but after 3 I’m just tired” Ok, now I can work with that.</p>
<p>But that is not what I wanted to share here: Yes, I did feel alarmed with the massive upheaval in my relationship with my son (first and only Bio child) so I did go to counseling figuring I was out of step with this stage, or that somehow I had just turned into a horrible mother and I was totally expecting a magic solution. Here is what this man told me:</p>
<p>-The stronger the bond between Mother and Son, the more explosive the process is- but the relationship will come back in later years.</p>
<ul>
<li>Childbirth was excruciating, so why would I expect the equivalent, which is essentially the birth of an independent man, would be less painful?</li>
</ul>
<p>-In order for mother bears to get rid of their cubs, at the right time she creates a huge ruckus and runs them really high up a tree and than runs off! Their launched just like that! This keeps replaying in my mind. Even saw a small bear way up in a tree, even with the chairlift I was on, and I thought- “there is the proof he is right” huge laughs by H and me. </p>
<p>_Beavers do the same thing- they build a damn and create a pool and then run the teenagers out of the pond for good with violent interactions. Their launched.</p>
<p>But most of all he said my job was done, and except for keeping him safe through the crazy dangerous Senior year- everything else the world will teach him…He has everything I have taught and modeled inside him, so he no longer hears me, but he will remember when life starts hitting him in the face, and the tile floor is cold when he is knocked down by life and has to pull himself up and go at it again. That is when he will hear me.</p>
<p>One thing the counselor did during the one joint meeting I had with S is have us write a letter to each other to read in a session about how we felt about each other. My son had a brief outline scribbled on a scrap of paper, but he proceeded to speak to me for at least 15 mins about how he felt about me and our relationship past and present. And he thanked me for many things. I wish it was written down but it wasn’t - I wish it was taped, but it is locked in my brain like it happened yesterday. Mine note to him was fully written out and I spent many hours on it, but it was no match for his. </p>
<p>The advice was right, our relationship has moved back to a close one, (by jr yr in college) but I think he has complete amnesia of those 18 months. Me? I am really working on it, but I’m not quite there. </p>
<p>I have no comment on the GPS, those teenage years are very difficult and I do not judge anyone- well yes I do judge parents who want to be their kids friends, and popular with their kids crowd-just a cop out IMO.</p>
<p>It seems there is a lot of advice from parents who have children in various stages of college. Senior year is NOT college, although I remember many, many families in our area started the mantra “well, they are going to be doing it next year anyhow”- drove me crazy. Every year in a teenagers life is equal to dog years, so in my mind you try to hold on to Superman’s cape as long as you can. For some reason they think “I’m a senior” (I wish I could convey the sneer in those words!) To which I would reply to my accepted to top 30 college - “I don’t give a sh**, I want you to be a freshman next year!” And around and around we went. Most honest explanation I ever got from one of my S mother’s was “I know you are right, but after 3 I’m just tired” Ok, now I can work with that.</p>
<p>But that is not what I wanted to share here: Yes, I did feel alarmed with the massive upheaval in my relationship with my son (first and only Bio child) so I did go to counseling figuring I was out of step with this stage, or that somehow I had just turned into a horrible mother and I was totally expecting a magic solution. Here is what this man told me:</p>
<p>-The stronger the bond between Mother and Son, the more explosive the seperation process is- but it will come back in later years.</p>
<ul>
<li>Childbirth was excruciating so why would I think the equivalent, which is essentially the birth of an independent man, would be less painful?</li>
</ul>
<p>-In order for mother bears to get rid of there cubs, at the right time she creates a huge ruckus and runs thme really high up in a tree and than runs off! Their launched just like that! This keeps replaying in my mind. Even saw a small bear way up in a tree, even with the chairlift I was on, and I thought- “there is the proof he is right” huge laughs by H and me. </p>
<p>_Beavers do the same thing- they build a damn and create a pool and then run the teenagers out of the pond for good with violent interactions. Their launched.</p>
<p>But most of all he said my job was done, and except for keeping him safe through the crazy dangerous Senior year- everything else the world will teach him…He has everything I have taught and modeled inside him, so he no longer hears me, but he will remember when life starts hitting him in the face, and the tile floor is cold when he is knocked down by life but has to pull himself up and go at it again. That is when he will hear me.</p>
<p>One thing the counselor did during the one joint meeting I had with S is have us write a letter to each other to read in a session about how we felt about each other. My son had a brief outline scribbled on a scrap of paper, but he proceeded to speak to me for at least 15 mins about how he felt about me and our relationship past and present. I wish it was written down but it wasn’t - I wish it was taped, but it is locked in my brain like it happened yesterday. Mine note to him was fully written out and I spent many hours on it, but it was no match for his. </p>
<p>The advice was right, our relationship has moved back to a close one, (by jr yr in college) but I think he has complete amnesia of those 18 months. Me? I am really working on it, but I’m not quite there. </p>
<p>I have no comment on the GPS, those teenage years are very difficult and I do not judge anyone- well yes I do judge parents who want to be their kids friends, and popular with their kids crowd-just a cop out IMO.</p>
<p>“we were able to give him enough rope to hang himself and still have time at home to address the issues with him”
jeeze OP. talk about a being a control freak! How is your son supposed to become an adult ,“if daddy” doesn’t allow him to make mistakes, because YOU screwed up when young? You can’t change YOUR past by trying to control your SON’S life. Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way…<br>
what are you planning to do when he IS at college and DOESN’T have you hovering, clandestinely micro managing him? HE WILL MAKE SOME MISTAKES! THAT’S LIFE! Are you ever going to let him learn ON HIS OWN, the consequences of his own decisions? or are you going to “address those issues” by yanking him out of college if he “screws up” [ oh the horror! ] and gets B’s or C’s his first semester, and try to “justify” your excessive overreaction by saying that you are only preventing him from making BIGGER mistakes? Why don’t you just toss him in the basement instead and throw away the key? that way you’ll save a lot of $$, and he wont make ANY mistakes that you’ll need to fix or prevent. …
You need to wake up, back off, realize you son WILL make mistakes AND live through the consequences . Maybe 10 years from now he can learn to trust YOU.</p>
<p>Well I guess that will teach SMILE- never post anything except maybe one liners!</p>
<p>I think your son is breaking away from his mom because he thinks it’s his mom who is tracking him and not you. It’s probably hard for him to think it could be you who is observing each of his movements, because you are appearing to be the more reasonable parent. You are letting your wife be the fall guy.</p>
<p>I understand trust is earned, but at some point you need to have some faith that you have raised a responsible adult.</p>