<p>OK all of you parents giving sound advice to POIH, here's another challenge. A dear friend who is long divorced is constantly being held hostage by his college junior daughter. The young lady has bad grades at an average college, does not work, has a very active social life and no ambition. </p>
<p>When dad tells her she needs a job to contribute to her exorbitant clothing expenses, she cries and accuses him of not loving her. When he tries to discuss her bad grades he gets a similar reaction. Guilty over the divorce, he capitulates to whatever her latest demand. So she drives around in the luxury car he gave her headed nowhere.</p>
<p>This is a bad tempered young women who has a hard time getting along with all. Mom is newly married and moved overseas leaving what's left of child rearing to him. Clearly he is so afraid of losing her that he is afraid to lay down the law. Anytime he makes the smallest attempt, she just screams and cries louder.</p>
<p>Dad is a busy exec but would stop everything to get her on the right road. His heart is in the right place and he adores his little girl, but he sees she has bad priorities and no values.</p>
<p>A parent who does not establish boundaries with his kids is not doing his kids any favors. I suggest that he watch a number of Nanny 911 episodes. Capitulating to a kid’s bad behavior only exacerbates the problem.</p>
<p>How do the nannies handle things? The family gets together and sets forth the family rules. Consequences are delineated for breaking the rules. Parents follow through with the agreed on consequences for breaking the rules.</p>
<p>I work with a gentleman whose 35+ yr old daughter is still calling him to complain about money, the time he spends with her, that he favors her sibling, etc. She will rant and rave, and then hang up on him. She then doesn’t call for a few days or weeks, until the next call. She got through college, but has not held a good job or had a deep relationship (unmarried). In short, she never outgrew this behavior. He will complain, but he has always rejected suggestions. This is their family dynamic, and neither one really wants to change it.</p>
<p>We think it’s clear that your friend must tell her to improve her grades (my personal suggestion would be to set a reasonable standard, tell her to get a loan, and if she meets the academic standard the loan will be repaid on her behalf). Her clothing allowance should be limited. She should be told that she will get X months of support after finishing college, so she needs to have a plan in place. She must either be civil, or he will not talk to her (which will make it hard to ask for money). He can offer her therapy to help her learn to control her demands and temper, while she is still in school – this type of immature behavior is obviously not going to help her when she gets a job.</p>
<p>If he’s an exec, he probably is smart enough to look at this situation just as if it’s a business problem…parenting is work (sometimes unpleasant work), and he is not putting the effort into it. If he is truly letting guilt drive his parenting and destroy his daughter, then he might need some therapy too to assist the family dynamic. </p>
<p>Ultimately, if you’ve made some suggestions as a very close friend and he truly isn’t doing anything about this situation, I think you have to stay out of it. Far, far, FAR out of it.</p>
<p>Some kids learn such manipulative behavior from their parents. Is the father remarried by any chance ? Does she know how to play upon any guilt the father carries over the divorce ?
That can be a hard pattern to break once it has been established. The father is in a tight spot because he doesn’t want to upset his daughter any more…she knows how to work it too.</p>
<p>“Guilty over the divorce, he capitulates to whatever her latest demand.”</p>
<p>That says it all. He can’t lose her, as she doesn’t have a job, doesn’t have any money, and is dependent on him. He needs to stop capitulating. She’ll complain, act out, and so on, like a two-year-old who doesn’t get candy at the grocery store. He needs to let her have her tantrum and stand firm.</p>
<p>He can’t change her behavior, but he can change his, and should stop giving in to his D’s tantrums.</p>
<p>Dad is a busy exec but would stop everything to get her on the right road. His heart is in the right place and he adores his little girl, but he sees she has bad priorities and no values.</p>
<p>This didnt happen overnight, and people dont change long ingrained patterns easily.
I sense busy exec= dad who wanted to indulge his daughter and did it through material gifts- but now finds that * what you sow, you reap*</p>
<p>Nonzeus is right - the problem belongs to the dad. If he isn’t willing to get tough with his daughter, it won’t matter what we think he should do. As a good friend, you’d like to help him fix this problem, and have probably heard more than you really want to about his d’s manipulative behavior. I don’t know about you, but my patience with people who are contributing to their own problems is not infinite. At some point, I’d probably tell him, “I’m sorry, but you already know you can’t keep giving in to her if you want this to stop. Please don’t mention it to me again.” If the kid is mentally ill, has a substance abuse problem, or is anything other than spoiled, I probably wouldn’t be so harsh.</p>
<p>To paraphrase Eleanor Roosevelt, she cannot take advantage of him without his permission. She cries & throws tantrums for one simple reason: she’s learned that this is effective in getting her what she wants. Why should she change her behavior? It works!</p>
<p>The only way to change this is for her to see that this behavior stops working. Assuming Dad is a manager at his job, he already knows what needs to do. If an employee stopped working, how long would that employee keep getting a paycheck? </p>
<p>The problem here is that Dad knows, but doesn’t want to do it.</p>
<p>There’s nothing you can do about it. He knows what to do to end the behavior, but he doesn’t have the guts to do that. Maybe for him giving material goods is easier than giving real love and attention.</p>
<p>My advice is to stop listening to his complaints or descriptions of the situation. Tell him you’ve heard it enough or just change the subject. You can’t solve his problems – problems of his own making – and you don’t need to listen to him complain about them. Life is too short for that kind of crap. BTDT with friends’ self-made troubles that they didn’t want to solve.</p>
<p>This sounds sooo familiar - oh yeah, I’ve lived it! For those of you who don’t have one of these, my story may help. My parents babied their baby - my youngest sis was the late “surprise”. She had a few health problems, nothing really serious, just a bit “fragile”. Dropped out of college to get married, eventually went back to school and did well but was never motivated to curb spending or save. We love her dearly and have all helped her out at various times with practical help and advice. She was constantly needy and demanding and my parents supported her, literally, all the way through her first marraige and divorce and into her second. Always buying new cars, living above her means, racking up credit debt for new clothes, furniture, vacations, etc. My dad would come to my house often and want to talk about her latest financial debacle. I always asked him to stop giving her money and he always said it would be the last time, but her needs always came with a good story or cry. He paid her rent/mortgate, utilities, car, and actually paid off her cards several times for her. This was not something that I or the other sibs ever asked for or expected. </p>
<p>There was never even a small effort made to repay them, even when she received various “windfalls”. Dad died supporting her and my mom, a frugal soul, turned her finances over to me. A few months later, baby sis requested a large “advance on her inheritance” because she’d gotten way behind again and wanted to be debt free. I requested all supporting docs, including a monthly budget, and finally offered her a few thousand for her kid’s medical bills and utilities. Checks payable to the creditor. I also showed her a number of budget items that could easily be cut or eliminated which would free up hundreds of dollars a month. That was the last large request we had - the crying doesn’t work on me - I’m sympathetic but just go into accountant mode. Now that my mom has passed, things are a little tense and the other siblings get worried/threatening calls from her about the estate. I understand she’s having serious financial trouble but went bankrupt a few years ago and can’t go that route again. I don’t see any major change in lifestyle so, while I feel badly for her, it’s time to grow up. I’m glad that I’m bound to divide things in a certain way and can only leave it to the others to decide if they want to “contribute” to her out of their share.</p>
<p>Moral of the story: Dad has to think about what will happen when he retires or passes and she doesn’t know how to handle things in a mature, responsible way. Perhaps setting up an allowance or trust and having her make her requests through an accountant/lawyer/banker or other third party would help wean her off him. It would be a kindness to her, in the end. It’s not really loving to enable your child’s dependence on you.</p>
<p>It’s not really loving to enable your child’s dependence on you.</p>
<p>No it isn’t. Dad is enjoying his position of being the savior, even though he knows it isn’t healthy behavior.
If he wasn’t, he would have stopped a long time ago.</p>
<p>Indeed. I understand why you would post if this is you and your ex and you need support, and if so, I truly get the situation and I do offer my support! But otherwise, I’m not sure why we are stirring this pot.</p>
<p>He is afraid of loosing her, but he also controls the purse strings. If he puts her on a budget, what is going to happen? Eventually, she will come crawling back hat in hand. She may put up a fuss, but she can’t support herself.</p>
<p>He should say: Here is your budget (tuition, room, board, basic necessities). Pay tuition, room, and board directly to the school. If she has her own place, then pay the rent and utilities directly. Give her a monthly amount for basic necessities. If she is to buy food with that, and she runs out of money, then buy her a food plan (so she can’t spend the $'s on other stuff).</p>
<p>Then, give her the opportunity to “earn” more by getting good grades (For each “C” she gets $, for each “B” she gets $$, and for each “A” she gets $$$). He can also incentivse her to work by saying he will match each $ she earns (even two or three to one). </p>
<p>If she claims he doesn’t “love” her, then he can say he is providing for her needs, and if she does what is expected of her (she loves herself), then she can maintain her life style. He can also tell her it is a life lesson she needs to learn for when she is on her own. As a “loving” parent, that is a lesson he needs to teach her. He can also tell her that she is much better off than most of her friends (unless she goes to one of those small LAC’s that caters to spoiled rich kids).</p>
<p>I agree with NSM with the added suggestion to first encourage the father to seek therapy to learn how to let go, get over his guilt and set appropriate boundaries. Then tell him or act in a way that no longer allows further whining on his part.</p>
<p>While I agree with the suggestions here for the father, who isn’t doing his daughter any favors, I also feel for the young woman. She’s been through her parents divorce (we don’t know how recently), and her mother’s remarriage and departure, which has to be traumatic. As someone who went through something similar in high school, I was not a happy or reasonable person for several years after that. If money=love in this family, as it does in so many, her father’s willingness to come through is seen as proof of caring-in both their eyes. </p>
<p>So enough with the amateur psychology-the point is, she needs to talk to a professional psychologist about taking control of her life and making decisions about where she wants to end up and how she plans to get there. He can and should offer to pay for that, if nothing else.</p>
<p>It sounds to me as if this girl’s parents have created this problem. Unfortunately, the daughter is the one who is truly paying for it. I’ve known people who had a huge hole in the center of their being that they tried to fill by buying and buying and buying. It doesn’t work.</p>
<p>I’d suggest that he give her a reasonable budget for living expenses and pay for therapy separately. Since she is somehow able to rack up huge clothing expenses, she probably has a credit card that the parent is paying off every month. I’d suggest that he stop that immediately. No credit cards. Pay her living expense money into a bank account on a monthly basis and she can use a Visa/Mastercard debit card on that account. I’d suggest doing it on a monthly basis to start because quarterly is too much for a person who has never had to match their expenses to their income.</p>
<p>I strongly disagree with paying her for good grades. She will only gain some self-respect if she stops associating money with love and self-worth.</p>
<p>I’m involved because dad is a business partner of three decades and couldn’t be more like family. And because he is trying, but is somewhat clueless as his ex shut him out in earlier years and he never really learned parenting skills.</p>
<p>Dad is not remarried but he has a long term partner who DD does not want ant part of. I’m fairly certain it is because she is a woman of high standards where kids are concerned, with lovely, successful children of her own. She has taken much of the advice you’re giving here, she stays out of it. Though I know she cares, she’s had it. DD demands that dad leave his partner home when they get together and she’s become happy to comply. Another part of the sick dynamic and I think it’s given pause to his partner about the relationship.</p>
<p>So I really do think dad has come to the end of his rope and realizes DD will be a discipline-less disaster in the work force. He jokingly asks if we have any enemies to send her to work for. He is now able to see a pattern of her treating boyfriends the same way and being walked out on. He knows he’s late to the game and he needs to do something.</p>
<p>If you all have any personal experience with therapists, you could recommend a specific person for him to consult, if that would make his first step any easier. </p>
<p>But, there is a fine line between being a good supportive friend and becoming one of his "go to "places while he wallows in the muck. If he is ready to take action, then by all means help him do so by helping him get to the proper professional.</p>