<p>Sometimes when you only hear one side of a story, you dont get the entire picture. I have no idea why my X tells my D of some of his extravagances, and while he earns his money and is entitled to spend it, there is no need to share with her what some things cost. She doesnt need to know. All it does though, is encourage her to spend more than I think is appropriate. </p>
<p>Dad is a busy executive, and mom has now moved overseas. My guess, certainly my situation, is mom has done the heavy lifting for the last how many years. And the “he would drop anything to get her on the right road” – we all know that is not what parenting is about – it is about being there day after day and doing the job. He helped create this problem.</p>
<p>So the D doesn’t respect her dad’s choices, thinks she gets to veto them, and he lets her!</p>
<p>Gee, I wonder how well “I don’t like your boyfriend and want you to leave him behind when we get together” would go over with the D should the dad say that to her; I’ll admit I’d be tempted to find out!! (Childish, I know, but sometimes, brats don’t know how they look until someone mirrors their behavior back to them.)</p>
<p>There can be a lot of history. My X had an affair with his current SO and D knew. So D doesnt want anything to do with her. Sometimes adults act irresponsibly too.</p>
<p>owlice, Are you really comparing the time a person might spend with their adult child’s partner with time spent between parent and child? Of course the partner should not always been banned but there is nothing wrong with choosing to keep a polite distance and wanting to maintain one-on-one time with your parent, as kayf just provided a good example of. </p>
<p>The title of this thread is entirely misleading. Let me fix it; “Father relates to daughter in emotionally unhealthy manner, shocked that daughter is emotionally unhealthy.”</p>
<p>High on my list of people I have zero patience for are parents who will pay for peace at any price rather than modeling what a sane, healthy adult looks like and then act bewildered when the price of peace keeps going up.</p>
<p>Yes, he does need to do something. He needs to knock it off with the victim act and get into counseling. It’s never to late to finally step up and be the parent your child needs you to be. I really hope he can do it. </p>
<p>I hope you’ll make the counseling suggestion and also stop providing an audience for his twisted perception of his relationship with his daughter that is only hurting both of them.</p>
<p>I have a good friend who is divorced and has a significant other who wants to marry her. The reason, she is resistant to the commitment is because of his relationship to his two daughters. Much like your friend, this man spoils his daughter to a point that my friend feels she would not be able to ignore if she married. This has been a focal point of much discussion. </p>
<p>This happens all of the time to varying degrees. In many ways, we were held hostage by our first two kids because we so wanted them to do well and succeed at college that we were willing to do nearly anything for them. It took us a while to realize that they had to have some structure and consequences laid out for them, and had to actually experience some adverse consequences before they could get through their thick heads that it was not all about them. Our own fault. But I doubt anyone could have gotten that through our thick heads 10 years ago. It was something we had to painfully discover ourselves.</p>
<p>Interesting thread. My best friend went through a nasty divorce and her daughter sounds very like the girl you mention. Master manipulator. In her case she went to live with her dad because she knew she could get whatever she wanted from him. Dad very much created the monster by giving her a ridiculous allowance ($200 a week when she was in high school - I was jealous!). Also gave her a credit card and debit card and would protest feebly when she used them lavishly, but would pay them off each month and let her keep them. He finally came to his senses once the daughter went off to college (his new wife probably had something to so with it). He was still too much of a pantywaist to deal with it himself so recruited his sister to be in charge of his daughter’s finances. Now all her finances controlled by the sister who is pretty strict (and a little bizarre - the girl has to ‘write a proposal’ if she wants any extra money for something like getting her hair cut). Bizarre but effective. Maybe the dad in this story has a relative he can rope in.</p>
My father handed me a credit card when I went off to college and said, “You can overspend . . . once.” Needless to say, I said the same thing when I handed a credit card to my d.</p>
We did the same - both our kids have our credit cards. They use them for emergencies (and are aware that new clothes don’t = emergency) or things we pay for such as textbooks or medical stuff. My son would occasionally want to order something personal on the internet which required a credit card so would call and ask if he could use it and sent us a check to pay for it. Neither ever abused the privilege. When kids like the one in the OPs post have been raised to think they are entitled it is a hard habit to break.</p>
<p>hmom5, your friend and daughter are New Yorkers, what they respect is money. It is still not too late to help this young woman out - with younger kids I would say “give me a weekend,” but an older kid, “give me a week.” </p>
<p>I would use money to modify her behavior. She is in school, so any necessities would have been paid for by daddy, as in she is not going to die without money. I would cut her off first - allowance, car, credit card, everything. Then I would tell her if she were to get her grades up to X, she would be given $Y dollar a month. I would want to see everyone one of her test grade. She is expected to come home on breaks, and be polite and civil to his partner. If she complies, then she would be given $Z amount to go shopping while she is in town. The minute she steps out of line, then money is cut off again.</p>
<p>It is not a good thing to use money to get people to do things. But I think in this young lady’s case, I think it’s the only language she’ll understand. The dad would have to be strong and not give in when she throws a temper tantrum. She is a smart girl, after a few tantrums she’ll get the hint.</p>
<p>There are times when I have paid a pretty (or ugly) price for peace. And it was worth it. However, when it becomes a way of life, it can be extremely damaging.</p>
<p>Twenty years of unthinking parenting is not going to be undone in a semester, and, frankly, this dad doesn’t sound like he has the emotional stability to do “tough love.” He needs to be convinced that, every time he bails her out, he is crippling his daughter as surely as if he were hitting her in the kneecap with a baseball bat. Does he want a daughter who can withstand adversity and take care of herself? (Maybe not…that’s what counseling can help him sort out.)
Certainly, canceling the credit card and instituting a debit card for the next six months is a good start. Keeping the explanation short and sweet, and not caving in is supremely important. If he thinks of it as a short-term policy, he may be able to struggle through.</p>
<p>No, of course not. I’m remarried, and make it a point to have time alone with my son. I also make it a point for the three of us – hubby, son, and me – to have time together. Further, I invite S’s dad, my ex, over for cake or dinner, whatever, and ex’s SO, too, on occasion.</p>
<p>S doesn’t have to like my H, but he doesn’t get to veto my choice of partner. Similarly, I don’t have to like whomever my S dates (when he gets around to it), but I will respect his choice, even if I think it is a bad one. (While he’s a minor, however, he is likely to get some appropriate Mom input on the matter. :D)</p>
<p>Divorced dad here. OP-That kind of manipulation is a receipe for disaster for everyone–dad, daughter and dad’s significant other. </p>
<p>I agree with NSM that you need to cut yourself out of the father’s pity loop. I also agree that the father could stand a dose of counseling. </p>
<p>Ex and I agreed early on that we weren’t going to allow the divorce guilt trip to be successfully used by our son. For us that plan has worked very well.</p>
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<p>I see as much of this as I do of the divorce guilt manipulation. I told my S in his freshman year of HS that Nationl Bank of Daddy closed the day the HS diploma was received. I explained that once 18 and out of HS, he was in charge of his life and that I was no longer calling his shots nor guaranting his happiness. I suggested that he start working to have his own money (which he did). </p>
<p>We negotiated our reciprocal commitments for college. Knock on wood, so far we have both lived up to our agreement. And, we have a great father son-relationship now that it no longer is parent-child relationship. I give advice IF and WHEN asked. He is free to decline the advice given.</p>
<p>I find that giving up being a parent and telling them what is acceptable is a challenge sometimes. He announced he was going to visit friends in Mexico City for Spring Break. He hasn’t asked for money so I stayed quite. He called a couple of weeks later to say that he was going to NY to visit a buddy at NYU instead. I admit I am relieved.</p>
<p>I remarried after a couple of years. I spend time with my S one on one and as part of a three person family. I find the idea of a son (or daughter) or a spouse trying to veto my relationships as unthinkable and unexceptable.</p>
<p>The only person with a problem here is the dad. He has an emotional “blind spot” and is letting that rule his life. He needs therapy asap.</p>
<p>The daughter will not stop asking for money/being manipulative/grow up until dad cuts the ties. I suggest cold turkey, but a set schedule would also work. Ie: For the next 3 months your clothing allowance is $100 per month. The following 3 months I will subsidize at a rate of $50 per month. After that, you are on your own. No negotiating.</p>
<p>I mean, c’mon. This is pretty much what I did with my <em>high school</em> aged daughter (not necessarily the same figures/time line) between 9th and 12th grade. If the OP’s daughter is third year college, time to accellerate.</p>
<p>OF COURSE she’s going to whine. Crying/whining/tantrums and statements of “I hate you” or threats of “I’ll never call again” are the last attempt at MANIPULATING the OP to change his mind. The daughter knows the father’s blind spots/weak points and is leveraging against them.</p>
<p>It is highly unlikely the daughter would go away permanently – once the dad faces that fear (and all his other blind spot fears such as what it means to be loved, be a good dad, did he fail, etc) and sets down boundaries – then his daughter will grow up and he’ll get a chance to have an <em>adult</em> relationship with his daughter. It may be a rough transition, but most families do just fine.</p>
<p>The alternative is to not face his fears and have a relationship with his daughter that is manipulative (both sides gain something here) and immature. It is his choice. I’d print off the entire conversation, let OP read it, and then STOP talking to him about it. You are potentially just enabling him if you are his non-stop “listening” post.</p>
<p>The SO, also a dear friend, is very hurt by his refusal to stand up to DD on her behalf. I truly fear he’ll lose her over favoring a brat who won’t give him the time of day once the gravy train is over. She is more than willing to let them have their alone time. She also knows that no good can come of her spending time with the DD until dad has established some rules and has a real relationship not founded on his giving and her taking.</p>
<p>And I agree with all of you, I will print this thread and bow out, so keep the advice coming!</p>
<p>My S had a buddy in middle school whose parents had recently gotten a divorce. He gained nearly 20 pounds over the summer. My S said something to him about it. He said his parents were engaged in a contest to see who could out do the other in expensive vacations. </p>
<p>Yep, trips to Paris and to resorts in Fiji and St. Martin. All that rich food.</p>
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<p>OK–any mental health professionals out there? Here is my amatuer opinion. Your friend needs to consider telling the father that SHE (the SO) finds how she is being treated by the father and the daughter unacceptable. Then SO needs to decide what she needs to say to the daughter and confront her.</p>
<p>Having the father carry the SO’s message is not going to work.</p>
<p>I would just like to mention that everything being discussed is through viewpoint of SO and Dad. I dont disagree with anyone seeking counseling, but it sounds to me that this may be one sided. And once one side of this starts calling the D a brat, thats what it seems to me. Anyone can question someone else’s behavior, but once one is calling the D “a brat who won’t give him the time of day once the gravy train is over” — I think its more like Dad and SO and friend ganging up the D. </p>
<p>People can say things about their own kids teasingly. Most people dont say the same things about other kids.</p>
<p>I’ve know the child for her whole life and been long term friends with both parents. I do consider the child a brat and have since she was about three! She went to school with my DD and had trouble with authority every step of the way. She is a big personality with 2 parents who applied little discipline and demanded little of her.</p>
<p>And I want to add the SO did not know dad until long after the divorce. Mom left dad for another man, not her current husband, so yes, DD has been through some unpleasant times and bad adult behavior, but not dad’s.</p>
<p>The proof is in the pudding. If you give him the printout and really bow out, he will either change his behavior or not. </p>
<p>His dd is certainly not going to change until he does. And he is putting his relationship with his SO at great risk. </p>
<p>Hey, dad of this girl: stop enabling your daughter. Period. If you do not take action, it is because you don’t really want any of it to change. Think about that for a moment. </p>