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<p>How many Psychologists does it take to change a light bulb?</p>
<p>Just one. But, the light bulb really has to want to change.</p>
<p>Absent the daughter wanting to change, you play the cards you are delt.</p>
<p>Ah, the D won’t change her behavior until she has to, because it’s working for her. Why change strategies that get her what she wants?</p>
<p>It’s the DAD who needs to change. He cannot make his D change – he can change only himself. Once he does that, the D will change; she’ll have to, because what used to work will have stopped working, and she’ll have to do something different.</p>
<p>Well… I live around kids who are spoiled to a measure that is unmeasurable. </p>
<p>Lay down the law. It is hard but he is the father and she is the daughter. The D seems to be a classic representation of America gen, or Entitlement gen. As above poster noted D is getting what she wants. </p>
<p>This will require being a total @$$ and giving her absolutely NOTHING, bare minimum. Even have her work min wage 3 hours a day and use all of it for tuition. Dad will pay delta.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t blame the parent so fast. We don’t know the whole story and it’s too easy to think stopping the spigot would do the trick especially when we are dealing with kids over 18. My friends always say that parenting an adult child is the hardest thing.
I know some parents who have applied the “tough love” strategy and now have lost touch with the adult child.</p>
<p>Three year olds are not brats. They are simply three. </p>
<p>I strongly disagree that this father needs to act like a jerk. I fear that that is what he will eventually do because it’s easy and his parenting method is the path of least resistance. And with everyone around him reassuring him that his daughter, the brat, is the real problem, he’ll be able to sleep soundly at night knowing he tried his “best.”</p>
<p>I have absolutely no sympathy for his partner. She chose a weak man as her partner and now she’s upset because he’s weak. Everyday must be filled with wonder for these two considering how poor their predictive ability is.</p>
<p>Find me a man with no weaknesses and DH is out on his butt! Though I must admit that parenting weakness is not one I’d want to live with. Chances of a kid not parented having a bright future seem slim.</p>
<p>Of course everyone has their weak points. But if you partner with a man who is weak with his children, don’t whine about it further down the line when he is weak with his children.</p>
<p>Personally, I cannot relate with wanting to be with someone who is not a good parent. At all. But she made the choice.</p>
<p>Any more thoughts before I print this off and present it to the dad?</p>
<p>As for the child being spoiled (which is actually not the right word, more like disturbed), let me add a few things. She was asked to leave a school in 5th grade because she left dog poop in front of a teacher’s house when he gave her a grade she didn’t like. </p>
<p>She was also asked to leave a private high school when several parents reported harassment of their children by this young woman.</p>
<p>I decided there was a problem at three when she attended DD’s birthday party, demanded the first piece of cake, didn’t get it and poured a cup of soda over the cake. No child care provider lasted more than a few months.</p>
<p>Please tell me the parents took this kid to counseling, well, early and often. </p>
<p>My heart breaks for the 3 year olds in that story. The birthday girl with her cake ruined and the other girl already dealing with such strong emotions and not feeling safe in being taught how to manage them. Plus a steady stream of providers she would come to know and then be left, over and over again.</p>
<p>Wow. Yes, disturbed is a more accurate description than spoiled. Too bad she was left to a stream of “child care providers” instead of being taken care of by her parents. That would obviously have required a career and/or location sacrifice…which it sounds like no one was willing to make.</p>
<p>Working at home is, of course, no guarantee of avoiding such issues. I have a friend whose child periodically exhibited disturbing behaviors throughout childhood and adolescence. The [devoted] parents never got the child into therapy, because one behavior would clear up and they thought it was done, and then after a while something else would crop up. (Denial obviously plays into this at some level. Who wants to believe that one’s beloved child is disturbed.) It was also difficult to recognize what was going on because the child was extremely successful. When the parents eventually confronted the situation, they were unable to get help or cooperation from the school folks or from just about anyone else, because no one believed that so outstanding a kid was in fact deeply disturbed. Instead they chose to believe that the parents were at fault. These situations are extremely difficult.</p>
<p>I hope your friend is able to get help for his D, and soon.</p>
<p>By the way, I think that if you actually print this thread out and give it to him it will likely be the end of your friendship.</p>
<p>I agree with that last line, Consolation. I also want to say that I too believe that it is not always possible to prevent terrible outcomes with our children. It’s just not. Having said that, as I said in a earlier post, I do find it frustrating to hear adults complain about their adult child’s behavior when that behavior has come as a suprise to no one else. Denial is powerful but it’s not an excuse when the pattern started in toddlerhood. As hard as I am being on this dad, I do feel for him. I have no doubt he loves his daughter but if there is anything where love is not enough, it’s parenting.</p>
<p>It’s pretty clear that this Dad wants to believe that parenting via grand gestures is completely valid and his daughter is the problem. Giving that up to accept responsibility? It takes an incredible person to grapple with that. Further, his partner does not want to see the entirely predictable course of this problem as it would force her to confront who she chose as a partner. When someone and their significant other are both invested in seeing themselves as the victims in a situation, the odds of it changing are so slim. </p>
<p>This kid has basically been on her own emotionally since toddlerhood, now she’ll be on her own financially as well. She’ll yell and fight about the money because she has no idea how to articulate her pain. My heart really breaks for her but I’ll hold out hope that she’ll read something or meet someone who will be willing to work with her to reparent herself and find a better life.</p>
<p>Re being financially on her own: unless the dad has experienced crippling financial reversals himself, I don’t think that he should cut her off. That would be too punitive, especially when the parents have established other expectations. I do think that putting her on a monthly allowance that she can access via Visa/Matercard debit card is the way to go, rather than allowing her to use credit cards without limit. I think that the allowance should be more than bare bones, but not extravagant. That is in the eye of the beholder, of course…</p>
<p>If she was my daughter and she was over 18 id put her on the street. Well I think most parents should put their kids on the street when they turn 18 anyway.</p>
<p>A few things, The dad and I have talked about everything I wrote here. He reminded me about the birthday party last week. He knows she’s troubled. While his instincts are surely off when it comes to parenting, he’s a realist, knows something has to change and deeply wants to do the right thing to help her.</p>
<p>The mom was a stay at whole mom at all times. There are 4 kids and they were a handful and thus she had help. This DD is the youngest, the older 2 girls and a boy are happy and successful people.</p>
<p>Dad will not cut her off financially, he’s just trying to cut her excessive spending.</p>
<p>Oh, and she has been in therapy when she would cooperate from a very young age including family therapy!</p>
<p>Thanks for clarifying, Hmom. As I alluded to above, being a SAHM or working at home or shorter hours to be available is no guarantee that everything is going to be perfect! Mea culpa for making unwarranted assumptions.</p>
<p>I’m glad to hear that efforts have been made. However, I’m seeing a large disconnect between the father’s perception of the problem (cutting excessive spending) and the real problem (he capitulates and their communication is terrible.) </p>
<p>Does he really not see how cowardly his behavior is? Now he wants his daughter to be the parent he has failed to be. “I am unwilling to do the hard work of reparenting this kid, so she’ll just have to learn how to parent herself.” </p>
<p>He loves this kid and he wants to help her. Is he in counseling? Has he found a counselor that will help him be a better father? </p>
<p>Because if he’s unwilling to do that work, then what is the point of this thread or of your continued conversations with him? The easy way has not worked. Time to try the hard way or just accept that this is what the relationship is.</p>
<p>I’ve just scanned this thread so apologies if I am being redundant. </p>
<p>There have been several threads recently about moocher family members of all ages (including grown siblings and even parents) so I totally agree, the sooner the limits are set, the better for all. Its not easy, but usually it works in the longrun for the better.</p>
<p>Counseling for him seems like what should come out of this. The dad has said he thinks it’s a little late to learn parenting skills when your youngest is 20, but I guess it’s never too late.</p>
<p>It’s not just the money. What really set him off was DD’s bad recent break up with a nice young man. This is a beautiful girl who’s very charming at first blush and attracts many young men. </p>
<p>The latest, one of her brother’s roommates at Harvard, was in a relationship with her for 6months. The family has known him for some time and loves him. Through the brother they learned of her horrible behaviors in the relationship and were shocked and disturbed. </p>
<p>This gave dad the wake up call in addition to the absurd credit card spending.</p>
<p>There is a difference between supporting a kid and turning a blind eye. Number one: take any credit card that dad is paying off away. Figure out a reasonable sum of cash each month and that’s it. She runs out, she runs out. If she absolutely HAS to have a credit card, make sure it is in her name and/or call the company and put a very strict spending limit on it. Whatever you determine her allowance is, if she is irresponsibly spending make the debt owed hers by actually keeping track of how much money she is essentially stealing.</p>
<p>If I were the dad, and to the degree it is possible, I would sit down and figure out how much “extra” cash I’ve handed over in the past 6 months to a year. Men love a bottom line. If he truly sees the number, perhaps he will have a better appreciation for how imperative it is for him to reestablish a financial agreement with her.</p>
<p>I also think that as a man, does he really want a daughter that treats men so horribly or uses them for the benefit of their wallet? I want my son to treat women with respect. I want him to open the door for them, be kind and thoughtful to her feelings, etc etc. It would embarrass me beyond belief to think I’d raised a son who was a tool, especially to other women.</p>
<p>Yes, I think some therapy might be helpful, but the first step to getting a reality check is his doing a little accounting.</p>
<p>She sounds pretty high maintenance, and that tends to get old in any relationship, be it parent-child or boyfriend-girlfriend. She doesnt sound like she has any motivation/incentive to change her behavior, and as long as whining gets her what she wants, she’ll continue to do it. As tough as it is, dad needs to learn the word ?no" – and use it often. Or merely say “I am sorry but I cant help you-- how do you plan to handle that”? She wont like it, of course, but she either needs to find another sugar daddy or learn some self sufficiency. Tough situation for any parent to be in. Sorry he is going through it-- but he needs to own his portion of the responsibility for this.</p>