Suddenly spiraling son - seeking stories of redemption to make me feel better!

Parents Forum
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<p>Get him to a psychiatrist! Please take seriously our advice to seek medical help. It’s probably a bump in otherwise smooth road to adulthood, in which case a bit counseling, time, and your ongoing support will get him on the right track. </p>

<p>OR – it’s something more serious. For many people, mental illness kicks in during the late teens/early twenties. Your son’s reaction to the getting-caught incident seems out of whack to the situation, and his ongoing odd behavior suggests he remains in denial or worse. </p>

<p>I say this as someone who saw a ‘super kid’ blunder at barely 21, and only later his parents recognized that it was more than just growing pains - it was the onset of a mental condition he should have been treated for earlier. </p>

<p>Here’s a big hug for all of you.</p>

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<p>I totally agree with this.</p>

<p>I’ll add that you need to try to get your son to go along with this. Try to convince him to be his own advocate here–at least until the damage is removed.</p>

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<p>Backside, you want “stories of redeemed young people who did something incredibly stupid and self-destructive, lost all hope, tortured their parents, and went on to recover and live meaningful, productive - and most importantly, happy - lives.” I’m sorry that I can’t give you that story. My D did incredibly “stupid and self-destructive” things during her second year at a top university, too, and ended up being required to leave. Her problems were the direct result of mental illness. She is still struggling mightily 4 years and many mental health appointments/medications and a hospitalization later.</p>

<p>I agree with the others who suggested that your son may have manifested some kind of mental illness. From your description, it sounds like your son is having a huge negative, irrational over-reaction to this event, and it has had dire consequences. He has been unable to get out of this damaging frame of mind yet and may need professional help. A mental health evaluation by a professional would help determine whether he is indeed mentally healthy enough to pull himself out this hole or whether he needs treatment. He may need treatment to get from the self-destructive part to the recovery/happiness part.</p>

<p>You say, "We can’t force him to get counseling or help (we try, he refuses). You actually have a great deal of leverage to get him to an evaluation and treatment. You are providing for him everything that he needs to live. I would explain to him that my H and I wanted him to get the evaluation. If he still refuses, I’d say that his doing so was required for him to continue to be supported in the manner to which he has become accustomed. I would start by stopping supplying him with any “extras” that he may be getting from you, such as cell phone service, internet access, using the car, spending money, etc. It’s not like you are asking him to do something harmful, for goodness sake! It’s the opposite - you want him to get help, to feel better, to be able to function. If you leave it to him to be “ready” for therapy or to ask for it, be prepared for the possibility that he never will.</p>

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<p>I was your son. My parents did not coddle me, they made me face up to my actions and it saved my life. I am in my 40s now and I see peers who are still convinced they are victims when in fact they made bad choices, have untreated mental illness issues and so on…their lives are not good. My life is. </p>

<p>You want stories of kids who turned it around via their parents protecting them from consequences? Good luck finding those.</p>

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<p>Of course you can change the situation. You are providing a place for your son to wallow in denial. He did do something wrong, he does need help. If your son were bleeding out and refusing help, would you be patting yourself on the back for enabling him? Mental illness can be fatal. </p>

<p>It’s easy to provide room/board and it may be better for your marriage but that does not make it the right thing to do for your kid. I’m very thankful my parents took the hard road and risked my ire rather than dare not rock the boat.</p>

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<p>This is so minor but merely as an example of how the 19 year old brain works. My son got an MIP. He weathered it but I always wondered what was going on in his mind. He’s now applying for jobs and he hit a job app that asked “Have you ever been convicted of any crime.” Not have you ever been convicted of any felony which is more standard. He called and asked “do I have to put down my MIP.” These kids, even the brightest, really understand the consequences of their actions. I know a young man who years ago failed out of a CC dream college. He happened to hit me on Linkedin and there was the college and the two years he had attended and the two years of you know what his parents went through along with the lesser known college that he ultimately graduated from. By the way he did graduate, magna cum laude and is a very nice almost 30 year old now. Life takes fits and starts. Hopefully your son will recover. I tend to advocate letting kids take their knocks but in this case you have to “clean up” as best as you can while simultaneously trying to get your son the help he needs. He is not invicible. He is not “special.” He is none of the labels that may have been previously attached. He is who he is today. He is who he will be tomorrow. He’s an intelligent person who is simply not dealing with things in a rational manner. Help will be good. I hope he can see himself clearly to understand that needing help is not a failing, but actually a positive thing while you clean up the mess he left behind.</p>

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<p>Ok, I’ll bite. Here’s a story of redemption. Good news/bad news:</p>

<p>Bad news first: Things are likely to get much worse before they get better. DS came back for a weekend visit a few weeks before finals freshman year acting like a total a**hole. Acting strangely, like maybe he was drugged out or something, very disrespectful. Long story shortened, eventually mid-summer we were forced to realize that we had a mental health emergency on our hands. Bi-polar I disorder with psychotic features. Hospitalization against his will. Over the next two years he was in and out of psych wards, using drugs and alcohol to numb himself. Eventually we spent all his college fund and then some on various in-patient treatments…We thought we had lost our son completely, in fact, it really seemed as though he needed a brain transplant. He was “out of his f’ing mind.” He was over-medicated, under-medicated and everything in between. Eventually he came to accept that he had to take charge of getting better. How? He was arrested because he was manic (it looks like a person high on crystal meth), and he was beaten up in jail by some other jerk awaiting bail. Now my H and I say that he got the sense knocked into him…</p>

<p>This was our S’s low point, and we had him living in a sober living house where the owner really took him under his wing. He started taking therapy seriously, stayed on his meds and began to heal. He realized he was NOT the sort of person who belonged in jail or on the streets.</p>

<p>Fast forward two years. He has been well for two years, has a full time job that he loves, goes to school part time, has a serious girlfriend, supports himself almost 100% (we pay car insurance, cell phone, and medical/pharmacy co-pays.) He keeps his psych appointments, he lives on his own. He is polite, grateful for everything we have done for him, and wise beyond his years. No one meeting him now would ever suspect that there had ever been a problem. And believe me, his case was very serious. When I see bums on the street I am fully aware that that could have (and was for a brief period) been my son.</p>

<p>It is really too painful to go into details, but suffice to say that we did some serious tough love for which he thought he hated us. Now he thanks us, respects us, and freely expresses his love and gratefulness to us.</p>

<p>So just be careful that letting him live at home doesn’t become enabling a mental illness going untreated. But it does sound like you are getting professional help for yourselves while you await your S’s next plan or symptom. I strongly suggest that you keep your car keys somewhere where he can’t get them unless you specifically give permission. (Ours were under our mattress as we slept. Only helped a little, since he left the house on his skateboard instead!) I urge you to search his room looking for contraband. Don’t take drinking lightly at all, because it could be self-medicating rather than an actual addiction. And you know that cell phone app we are hearing about these days regarding tracking your whereabouts? I strongly urge you to activate it now for your son’s phone, because there is likely to be a time when you can’t reach him and he is in serious trouble somewhere–if you can track him, you may be able to head off a disaster, or at least you’ll be able to go to sleep knowing he is alive. </p>

<p>Yes, my S got F’s changed to W’s after the fact, which he did on his own when he got his act together and needed a decent transcript in order to transfer. I am so proud of him, and he’s doing fantastic both at work and at college.</p>

<p>I hope your troubles don’t become as deep as ours did. But our son’s “redemption” is nothing short of a miracle, achieved through his own hard work, and our determination not to give in. And LOTS of $, which fortunately was there in the family. If it had not been, I think our S would be dead or in the streets right now.</p>

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<p>Yes. Me.</p>

<p>Lots and lots of drama and mental illness led to the flunking out.</p>

<p>If all it takes to preserve his GPA is for him to sign a letter or something, I’d require him to do that. He’s perfectly able to do that, whatever his state of emotional turmoil might be. If you’ve been paying for college, I don’t think he’s entitled to choose F’s over W’s.</p>

<p>Then you can address whatever is going wrong. I certainly wouldn’t allow someone to suffer through a treatable illness (which is what you seem to have on your hands) in my house while refusing treatment. Either he has a medical problem, in which case he needs to accept treatment – or else he is an adult deliberately disrespecting and abusing you, in which case he needs to get out of your house. He can pick.</p>

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<p>Yeah, plus, he may not actually be able to “choose” right now.</p>

<p>You bring the paperwork and the pen and you say, “Sign.”</p>

<p>He says, “No,” or whatever it is he is currently saying that means, “You can’t make me.”</p>

<p>You say, “If you want to stay here? Sign. It’s not a negotiation.”</p>

<p>You do the same thing with the therapist. “These are the minimal requirements to stay in the house.” Then, you say nothing else. If he argues, “These are the minimal requirements to stay in our house.” etc. He’ll sign, just to make you stop standing there.</p>

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<p>The problem with the mental health system is that it is the patient’s right to be mentally ill. It is enormously difficult to get someone evaluated against their will - you practically have to swear that they are an imminent danger to themselves or someone else to get any help.</p>

<p>IMHO, the poster’s son, if he is suffering from a condition, will not be able to easily decide to accept treatment or leave the house. The parents really do have to do a tightrope walk between tough love and forcing their child on to the streets.</p>

<p>I do hope you can get help for your son. I have a family member with bipolar, and when he takes care of himself (the majority of the time) he is fine - married, kids, job. But occasionally he stops his routine/meds and there is a period of time when his family does have to do some tough love with him and get him back into compliance.</p>

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<p>Stories of redemption? Ours happened after graduation so it did not affect his grades, but S1 spiraled out after graduation when he couldn’t get a permanent job and meet his own expectations. He also felt that everything should go by the rules and if people did not follow the rules they should suffer not him, and it was always their fault or the rules weren’t applied fairly. Lots of drama for a couple of years, including dropping out of our lives for 6 months. Over Thanksgiving and Christmas we did not know where he was. During that time he told the people he was staying with that we were abusive and that was why he did not contact us. Low low point. </p>

<p>Somehow he found the Marine Corps recruiter and they got him signed up into the reserves. It was the best thing that ever happened. It was rough on him, but he learned responsibility and BTW - they follow the rules. He could learn their rules and survive. He was recognized for how smart he was but held responsible for his actions. Just what he needed. He came out of the training and before long had a job in retail, then one in Border Patrol. He is now married, in law school and talks to us several times a week. </p>

<p>It was a hard road. He still tends towards too much a focus on rules, but he manages himself better. We found out that it was critical for him to manage blood sugar and exercise. Protein snack every 3 hours and outside exercise every day. We probably should have had him in counseling, but once they are 18 it is almost impossible to do anything they don’t want to do unless you can demonstrate they are a danger to themselves or others. Be careful of the depression. That is really dangerous at this age. Suicide is a possibility. We really worked to try to make sure that was not in the mix, but he never threatened it so we could not force treatment. </p>

<p>Age can help. Getting past this really hard age is imperative. If he will talk to you keep open that there are many ways to live a life and college is just one. He is not a failure just because that route did not work out. I am sure your own counseling is helping you with that. {{{{ Hugs}}}, it will take a while, hang in there.</p>

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<p>Backside,
I am so sorry to read about the situation with your son. I can feel his pain and I can feel yours as well. It will get better. Just hang in there and keep doing what you are doing. It seems like you have a great deal of insight into what might have precipitated the situation with your son. Give him (and you) some time. Let me tell you briefly what we went through with our oldest son who is now 22. He had very high SAT scores and above average grades but managed to flunk out of college first semester. Then proceeded to enroll in Junior College and flunk out again. It wasn’t until he totalled a car and got a DUI that we knew the seriousness of what we were dealing with. I can’t even explain to you the pain we felt. Fast forward a couple of years. It has been a bumpy road at times, but the road is leading forward. No more drinking (definitely was drinking to numb the pain he felt for failing at school) and works 40 hours a week. Pays us some rent, but most of his money goes to paying off the debt he incurred from the DUI (no one else was involved in the accident and no one was hurt). He takes the bus to work or gets a ride from a friend. In hindsight, this kid was not ready for college at 18. A gap year would have been ideal for him, but he would have not done that. I think he felt a great deal of internal pressure to succeed because he knows education is important to us and to his extended family. At any rate, he sees the light at the end of the tunnel and has grown immensely. We see that he is a really hard worker (who doesn’t complain) and has handled his consequences like a man. Granted, it is not the path we wanted him to take, but he is moving forward. Your son will learn from this situation and find his way. Hang in there. Raising 18-25 year olds is not for the faint of heart!</p>

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<p>I think Compmom has the most reasonable assertion of what’s going on. I am not ruling out mental illness (and it would be good to do a little family tree research reflection to see if there is any historical data to go on), but the indignant reaction doesn’t sound manic as much as it sounds… indignant, especially when one has typically been a really high achieving and self-directed student before this. And then… when you get conflicting stories from people in a place of authority? Well… I have to admit, I too hate when people feel they have to lie. We can disagree but if you feel you have to lie about either my behavior or your own in order for you to be right? I will be furious. That’s not mental illness (or at least I hope not). Life doesn’t need to be fair, but I am pretty big on the integrity of it.</p>

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<p>I may have to go back and reread OP’s two posts, but I didn’t see anything about the university treating her son unfairly or university officials lying or giving conflicting stories. I really can’t see any reason for her son to feel indignant. He made a mistake and couldn’t accept the consequences and things snowballed waaay out of control. If this were my son I would find some way to get him in treatment ASAP.</p>

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<p>I’d also encourage forcing treatment ASAP. As another poster suggested, you may need to take away the things that make living at home so cozy (car keys, money, cell phone, internet…).</p>

<p>Why do I suggest this? Well, I have watched a relative for the past several decades. He went away to college and in short order, we began to see changes that were not good. In retrospect, this is most likely when some form of mental illness began. Instead of dealing with the negative changes, his parents allowed it to continue. Whenever he made a bad choice, they would bail him out from the consequences. Over and over again. For years and then decades. He is almost 50 now and the devastation in his life is tremendous. He is a miserable and lonely person. Oh how I wish that his parents had required him to stand on his own two feet and not allowed him to blame everyone but himself. </p>

<p>Please consider forcing the counseling issue with your son. I know you asked or stories of redemption, but I can only share with you this story that I personally know. This is what happens when you don’t require the young adult to act like an adult. </p>

<p>I’m so sorry you are dealing with this. I do hope that things turn around for your son.</p>

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<p>I also don’t see anything about the university treating the student unfairly. As the OP tells it, her son was caught drinking underage. Instead of handing over his ID and accepting whatever consequence is normal for underage drinking at his campus, he was noncompliant and verbally abusive.</p>

<p>The next day he continued to be noncompliant and verbally abusive. The university bent over backwards to help him get past this incident and back on the right track, but he continues to refuse to accept responsibility, has quit school and is holing up in his room.</p>

<p>What was the university supposed to do differently? </p>

<p>Now for a more hopeful story. I went off to a top school, didn’t study, just holed up in the library and read. I was eventually thrown out, as I should have been. I got a job, moved out of my parents’ house, and worked. After a year and a half, I got bored in the working world, reapplied, went back to my original school and graduated Magna Cum Laude.</p>

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<p>To the OP: Tell your son that the medical leave due to depression just means that he had psychological distress due to being mistreated by the school. Also tell him, if he doesn’t get a medical leave, the school will get to screw him over more by ruining his academic record.</p>

<p>He’s obviously not thinking rationally. But the F’s may have a further psychological effect on him. It’s not just that they ruin his record. For that reason, you’ve got to try to convince him to take the medical withdrawal.</p>

<p>I don’t think now is the time for “tough love.” I agree with some others that he shouldn’t be in school until he can get his head together.</p>

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<p>You are technically correct. I inferred that there were conflicts in perception of events and thus is why it went to review committee and why there was indignant hurt at a tearful testimony of another. My mistake, but still makes sense to me.</p>

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<p>backside-- you’re a more patient and loving parent than i am.</p>

<p>I’m 2 months into a son who also was doing great and crashed. (you can read my previous two threads)</p>

<p>My H may be enabling my S (which is why I ended my last thread noting we are spliting) and preventing more in depth treatment of an underlying /emerging serious mental illness as another poster indicated occurred in her S’s saga (which turned out well). While my son likely has some depression and anxiety-- I geniunely do not believe that bi-polar symptoms are showing - yet the drastic and sudden change in your son’s behavior suggest perhaps something more serious.</p>

<p>I ask if it’s remotely possible that he had something dropped in his drink that he was unaware of causing the irrational response to school officials? </p>

<p>My only advice is that you continue to offer the opportunity to get him out of his room - doing something productive every day-- whether it’s simple things like taking a shower, to helping you plant some flowers or going grocery shopping. Maybe he will be willing to spend some time volunteering in the community?
Our son willingly went to therapy as soon as he returned home-- but it’s slow going and we have no idea what is really troubling him or if there are serious mental health issues. He still spends most his days online locked in his room</p>

<p>While it’s still soon- is there some timeline for your S in terms of how long his warm bed and healthy food continue if he isn’t getting therapy? And of course, a full physical would be wonderful. When you read my threads, you’ll see that my son refused to do so-- I think he feared finding out he had some underlying illness that would never go away-- and prefers to live in a world that he thinks is temporary (this is irrational -but the 17-24 year old male brain is not fully formed)</p>

<p>For what it’s worth-- we were able to get the bad grades expunged from the previous semester conditional on a positive semester when he returns. It was a small chip in his direction.</p>

<p>The school was within its right to handle the drinking as it did. The student’s response and subsequent academic demise were due to an underlying psychological disorder – previously unknown and as such, the Fs should be Ws or the entirety of the semester expunged. Heck-- if women with PMS can get away with murder literally-- this kid has a case to wipe his grades away on the basis of some underlying temporary irrationality.</p>

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<p>I am so glad that you are getting some counseling, OP, to deal with this tough situation. I hope your spouse is as well, since it must be a huge strain on your marriage and family–crises with our kids always are!</p>

<p>I too would ask S to sign the paper for the school to give a medical withdrawal, just telling your S it’s so the school won’t further undermine his great work there or something (your counselor can help guide you in this). The counselor should also be able to help you figure out how to help your S get a complete physical & some counseling, partly by not having his life at home be too cushy–no car & no internet while he refuses to get counseling sounds reasonable to me.</p>

<p>I know a loved one who was brilliant but spiraled out of control at some point and became a recluse in a room at his parents home, after an amazing college career, living alone in his room until he died at 60+, never having received sufficient help and treatment to function independently. His parents’ great fear was predeceasing him and having no one to care for him.</p>

<p>On the other hand, another loved one of similar age has significant mental health issues but has earned her PhD, written several published books, and is a travel agent. She got and continues to receive the support she needs to function successfully.</p>

<p>Yet another loved one has had a rocky time and has noticable asbergers but has gotten the treatment and support he needs and recently graduated from medical school, has gotten a patent and doing significant medical research.</p>

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<p>Backside’s original post shows a lot of wisdom and insight, and is very articulate. I trust that she knows her son and what he needs right now. I would do the same: let him be, keep him fed and warm, and hope that some new shoots of growth appear soon (sorry for the trite image, but there is newly blooming forsythia outside my window right now). Therapy for trauma might help, and framing it in terms that he can relate to (in other words, maybe telling him that he needs help getting over what he thinks the university did to him, versus getting help for what is wrong with him, might get him there.) Again, I would suggest EMDR, which the son might find somewhat intriguing. EMDR is non-verbal and might appeal for that reason also.</p>

<p>I think the one thing parents should help with, is trying to get those F’s cleaned up. Many schools wipe the record clean for kids who are having difficulties like this. They will tell parents that the student should be doing the advocating, but in a case like this, where the relationship between student and school IS the problem, the son could sign a release and parents could do the advocating, or even hire someone if necessary.</p>

<p>I still think that this sounds like the reaction of an achieving, idealistic kid, who possibly had based some of his identity on the regard of others, who might be traumatized by the incident and its effect on his self-esteem. But I don’t know him, or how the campus police behaved, or any of the relevant facts, and that is just a superficial reaction to the story.</p>

<p>Backside, my brother (now in his 50’s) was a complete mess all the way until mid-twenties. Dropped out of college, bartended, did drugs, etc. He volunteered for a local tv station, worked a little local radio sports (bottom of the media barrel), went to school and is now a very high executive at a major network.</p>

<p>One more thing, not related, necessarily, to Backside’s son. Many posters seem to blame parents in one way or the other for the fates of kids with mental illness, especially those who ended up lonely in their rooms without much of a life. None of us can even pretend to know what really happens in these instances, and though judging parents of mentally ill children is a time-honored practice, more recent knowledge about the origins of psychiatric disorders would prevent this kind of judgment on the part of enlightened people. Mental illness emerges in the late teens and early twenties, most often, and has little to do with parenting flaws. Some sufferers are truly incapable of benefiting from therapy. In some cases, the fact that a person is still alive in his or her 50’s is a triumph in and of itself.</p>

<p>I would not come to the conclusion that this is the case with Backside’s son, at all. This sounds to me like a temporary crisis, that could turn around, and it also sounds like he is in very good hands with wise and caring parents. This son has abilities that will stand him in good stead, but may need to learn internal motivation versus being motivated by externals such what others think of him. He may also need to accept that the world, and the people in it, are very imperfect. This will be a hard time, but it could be the beginning of him living in a more authentic way, who knows. Crises always bring opportunities of some sort.</p>