Switching College from Germany to the US for entry into this Fall

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When I hear ‘Romanian medical schools’, I have to think of my (former) hospital internist who was from Romania. She went to medical school there (at Carol Davila University of Medicine and Pharmacy, which today teaches medicine in both Romanian and English) and practiced there for a while. Then she came to the US, spent a year studying at Stanford and did clinical research at Wayne State for a few years.

Unfortunately, when she decided that she wanted to get licensed to practice medicine in the US, she was unable to get a residency position. I don’t know if this was due to her Romanian degree or something else. Anyhow, she ended up repeating medical school in the US (at Wayne State) and only then did things start to go her way.

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@b@r!um
That has really went stupid. It’s good to know these things before beginning the studies. At least I can assume from this story that the Romanian degree isn’t recognized in Michigan as well… Do you know whether or not she was unable to get a residency in Michigan only or was she also unable to get a spot in other states throughout the US? There is a recruitment agency saying that the Romanian degree is recognized in most states in the US without stating any state where it actually is recognized.

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Why would you believe an agency, outside of the US, to know the intricacies of each state’s medical practicing licenses? Each STATE has different requirements for degrees and licensing based on their own rules and regulations. Some may be similar, but you can’t assume that.

Additionally, the operative words are “Romanian degree”. People here still relate the orphanage issues with Romania and cringe.

So, I’ve followed this post and I am concerned because you appear to be grasping for any viable option that will get you to the states and keep you here with permanently.

It began with engineering and very weak SAT scores (1490?), then it transitioned to medicine, then research, then back to kinesiology. The point being, you really seem desperate to get stateside, at these really unknown and small universities, that might provide aid, to grasp at something you might not truly like just to get into the US.

As a parent of 3 young adults, I’m not criticizing your decisions, I’m just questioning this “all or none mentality”. If your SAT scores are predictable, I really think a career in medicine will be extremely difficult.

I don’t want to burst your bubble, but it you are going to make this much of an effort to find where you belong, at least study something that you will really ENJOY as a career. Otherwise, you will be miserable.

Please connect to another post on CC
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1787829-can-it-really-be-that-bad.

which references this article:
html#latesthttp://blogs.law.harvard.edu/abinazir/2005/05/23/why-you-should-not-go-to-medical-school-a-gleefully-biased-rant/

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@“aunt bea” I didn’t believe them. In fact, I was very sceptical and that is why I asked. And Romania hasn’t the best reputation in Germany as well, although people who study there say that their education is really good. But turning a blind eye to the reputation isn’t good as well.

Regarding the choice of my major: I began with engineering because I thought it’s interesting. It turned out it isn’t, at least Electrical Engineering isn’t. I was looking for alternatives then and I thought about business, engineering and medicine. To be honest, I think the reason why I thought about business was that it’s easier, but luckily I didn’t choose that, this would have been a stupid decision. Medicine was, however, something I always THOUGHT about, but then did always say no to, because of my grades. However, at one point I realized that I should do it - and so I started to look for options. Medical research is something I would consider to do after graduation hopefully combined with being a doctor, but my primary goal is to become a doctor. And I don’t remember I wanted to do Kinesiology, this was just a suggestion and I said I’m not interested in it.
What I would enjoy more than being a doctor as a career is actually to become a pilot. But job chances aren’t good so it’d really be stupid to spend 60,000€ (67,000$) to get the license and probably not finding a job afterwards.

I don’t have a “all or none mentality”, but I try to reach my goal. I don’t think it’s wrong that I would like to live in the US - and I have alternatives, although I’d always keep trying reaching my goal. The UK is within the European Union and it’d be no problem to work there.

Do you think Southern Utah is really bad? I don’t mind living in a small city for a couple of years and they seem to really care for their students, most reviews are positive as well and they have many out-of-state and international students. However, I’d prefer Strathclyde in Scotland if they were able to change my offer to Biomedical Sciences. The other option is to go to a Polish Medical School and this is not because I want to go to the US, but because it isn’t easy to get a spot in Germany. If I got a study place here, I’d study here. (And you’re absolutely right that I should focus on studying the right thing first, before thinking about going to another country)

Your first link doesn’t work, but from what I read in the second one medicine SEEMS to be horrific. I don’t know whether or not everything is true what is stated in that article, but I know that things doesn’t go this way in most European countries. I know some students in medical courses and they have lots of free time and doctors usually have a number of hours they work and this number shouldn’t be exceeded.

I hope it’s a little bit clearer now. If I wasnt be sure I’d take a gap year, but I don’t think there’s a reason for that now.

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Medical students and interns and residents in the US definitely do not have lots of free time. Seems like you have a choice to make: do you want to practice medicine or do you want to come to the US?
Becoming a doctor in the US seems quite unlikely for you.

And what do you do if you don’t reach your goals? You understand that they don’t just let everyone who wants to to become a doctor or do biomedical research, right?

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@PurpleTitan
Why should I make a decision between both choices? I think I should set my focus on studying now and solve the question how I’d be able to go to the US later. I just don’t want to make it impossible. Also, I don’t really see why I shouldn’t reach my goal. Studying medicine is not different or more difficult than studying any other subject… Sorry, but I don’t get what you want to tell me. Do you want to suggest that I should study something different?

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OK, believe whatever you like. It’s your life. But having backup plans would be smart.

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@PurpleTitan It’s not about believing something, I just don’t get what your intention is. Also, I don’t know what backup plan I should have. When I begin to study something, isn’t that safe enough? I asked some students in my current course about their backup plans and most didn’t know what they would do instead. I think the answer is "study something different ".

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You can study whatever you want, but

  1. A med school has to accept you.
  2. To be a practicing doctor, you need to be licensed, and I just don’t see the odds of being a licensed doctor in the US (especially in the places that you seem to want to go) as being very high from the various paths available to you.

And it is about believing something. You believe that you have a chance of becoming a doctor in the US, right? If you did not believe that, then why even bother with all this?

And sure, you can go without a backup plan if you like (if there is not much monetary investment required). You’d have only sunk time in. But if you have to spend money and take out loans, then its pretty foolish to go down a path without a backup plan.

Like I said, it’s your life. I don’t have any intention besides offering helpful advice (which includes introducing you to the reality of your situation), but if you don’t want that, again, feel free to go down whatever path you like.

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@PurpleTitan Okay, intention was the wrong word, what I meant was that I did not understand what you wanted to tell me. I didn’t mean to sound ignorant.
Regarding the US I think it’s realistic to say that it isn’t impossible to get a residency if I have good grades in the Steps (and are a graduate of a respected university). I know that it is much more difficult to work in California afterwards. But I prefer education above location and even then I’d give my best in order to make it somehow possible to work in California. Also, it isn’t a big problem to get admitted to a medical school in Eastern Europe.
Your advice is actually helpful, because I really didn’t think about a backup plan. I think the best option would be to transfer to a related program and finish this education. If you have any idea, feel free to share it with me ;).

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Southern Utah is not “bad”; it’s just so isolated. Are you sure you can get aid there? You’ve already taken college courses so as a transfer, how would they fund you?

I’m sure the people in Utah are very kind and friendly, but for a European student, I think it will drive you a little nuts. I also echo @PurpleTitan who is trying to help. You need a back-up plan.

Most of the things about medical school and medicine are absolutely true. I know someone who was almost done with her residency and couldn’t take it anymore; so she quit. Her Asian parents were furious. They had invested so much money in her education and couldn’t believe that she would quit.

Also, your dream is California, yes? Plan on spending a lot of money to live here, unless you live in the desert.

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Southern Utah is VERY isolated and VERY conservative (they still love i GWBush there).
Romanian universities are very good and their medical programs are accredited throughout Europe.
You should go as undecided if you attend an American university. That would be the primary benefit for you since you are interested in many things.

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@“aunt bea”
Yes, they told me I should apply as a incoming freshman and I don’t need to transfer my credits anyway. The medical education seems to be much more strict than in Europe. Actually it has the lowest dropout rate throughout all studies in Germany and almost all exams are multiple-choice.
I mean I’d like studying Engineering with Management as well (which is different than my current course, because it’s general engineering and only management combined), but I prefer Medicine. I think it’s wrong take a subject over another only because it’d be easier to find employment in the area I’d like to live in in the future.

@MYOS1634
Exactly, the general education requirements only seem to be like something I could never get in any other country.
I am still thinking about applying to Romania or Poland. Would have to do apply for the TOEFL next week if I wanted to do this, so I have to make a decision in the next couple of days :D.

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Southern Utah replied today: They said they would be able to offer me a scholarship of 8,500$/year.
These are the expected costs: http://suu.edu/prostu/pdf/financialform2014.pdf - they would still like to see 20,300$ and they bill directly 24,200$ so with the scholarship there are 15,700$ left, which would be too much. Of course I can ask them whether or not they would be able to offer a higher scholarship, but I think studying Medicine directly is a better idea.
Do you think I should choose Poland (~11,000$ tuition) or Romania (~5,500$ tuition with option to get up to 2,500$ back depending on performance) if it is my goal to work in the US after graduation?
I looked for a ranking and the Medical University of Lublin is ranked #1262 in the world and Carola Davila University was ranked #1711. Don’t think it matters though… The most important differences are that Lublin is approved by the California Medical Board and Poland is somehow “more” reputable than Romania.

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To understand the steps necessary to be eligible to apply for residency in the US as a FMG (Foreign Medical Graduate)-- please read the information here:

http://www.ecfmg.org

In order to apply for the Residency Match Program, you must first be accredited by ECFMG (Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates).

Realistically, with a foreign degree it will be essential for you to do several observerships, or if at all possible, medical rotations, at US medical programs before graduation from med school.

You will not get be offered any US residency interviews regardless of your USMLE scores unless you have at least 2-3 letters of recommendation from US medical program directors.

This is one thing you must ask both the Romanian and Polish medical schools you’re considering–will they arrange US rotations for their students. (I know Poznan offers its student the option to do US rotations during the final year, but the school doesn’t arrange them. It’s something students have to themselves. They also have to arrange their own US malpractice coverage.)

There is website and forum devoted to non-US medical schools. I’ll link the forum for European and Russian schools

http://www.valuemd.com/european-russian-medical-schools/

Also please be aware that in the next 6 year it will become increasingly difficult to gain a US medical residency as a FMG. Why? Because 12 new US medical school have opened over the last 7 years and 10-15 more are expected to open in the next 8 years. The number of domestic medical grads is increasing dramatically while the number of residency slots has remained static since 1997. (And the number of residency slots won’t be increasing any time soon for complex and largely political reasons about Medicare funding formulas.) It’s projected that by 2020, US medical grads will fill all available medical residency slots.

Currently, FMGs have only a 30% chance of Matching.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/NRMP-and-ECFMG-Publish-Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-for-International-Medical-Graduates-Revised.PDF-File.pdf

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California or bust, still? Still grasping at straws.

With a composite SAT of 1490, I really don’t think you stand a very good chance of meeting our California State Boards. Sorry just my opinion.

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Out of curiosity, where can I find what the 12 new and 10-15 projected schools are?

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MYOS,
Here you go
https://■■■■■■/LLSSsP

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Thanks! :slight_smile:

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@aunt bea
The reason my SAT scores were so “low” (in fact, they are national average) is that English isn’t my native tongue. While preparing I focused more on studying the math I already know rather than studying the different words. That’s what made it difficult for me to get a better score. Plus, CR is much more difficult for non-natives than it is for US students. And still, many universities offered me to waive their TOEFL requirement. My Abitur grades are above average and even then the reasons they are this “low” are History, Music and German classes. Just wanted to say this, because it really sounds like I’m a bad student.
Moreover, the CBM list isn’t used by California only, but also by Arkansas, Tennessee, Texas etc…
It seems like you think it’s wrong wanting to live in the US, especially in California. I am, however, well aware that it isn’t an easy process to be licensed there and if I wasn’t able to secure a position - so what? At least I would have tried and I would still be able to work in any country within the EU. Most other subjects actually don’t have better job prospects, especially not when somebody wants to go abroad (where often the only option is to win in the greencard lottery). Finally, studying Medicine, like in any other subjects, doesn’t limit my job options to being a physician only and so I may look at other career options if I want to live in California. This sounds well-thought, doesn’t it?

@WayOutWestMom
I don’t necessarily want to graduate in Poland or Romania. It is often possible to transfer to Germany without losing any time if there are places left and many students do this (although I should assume I am going to graduate there). Thanks for the link. Polish medical schools are advertising they have a much higher match rate than what you stated - I think the official quota is this low due to many applicants from India and other Asian countries. Don’t know whether choosing a Romanian school rather than a Polish school would put me in the same position.