<p>A non Greek guy can pressure a non Greek girl to have sex with him, too, ya know. </p>
<p>My first date with my now H was at a sorority formal - and I asked him. That provided me and my girlfriends a venue to ask guys out that we wouldn’t have had 25 years ago, when girls didn’t ordinarily ask guys out. Worked out well for a lot of us :-)</p>
<p>I think the author of the second article Haystack posted sums up the Greek versus Greek position very succinctly </p>
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<p>Greek life inherently has a divisional policy, you are in or you are out. You belong or don’t belong. Greek life perpetuates the idea we need to be separate. </p>
<p>There is no arguement anyone can present on the pros of Greek life that can’t be accomplished without it. </p>
<p>Habitat for Humanity does not have a greek group, no community service requires you be in a greek group. No club requires what Greek groups require. You are free to join or leave, no one will turn against you if you decide to leave. </p>
<p>There are no threads spending any energy arguing whether one should belong to a club but we many multiple page threads on cc, including this one, arguing the pros and cons on Greek life.</p>
<p>That line stuck out for me, too, Lakemom. One of the comments elaborated on this:</p>
<p>“I am currently the editor at a small college in Michigan, and about two months ago I published an editorial that expressed concern at the current pledging process at our school that lead to the disbandment of two pledge classes. I anticipated there would be controversy, but I could never have expected what actually occurred. Instead of recognizing the editorial as a call for discussion, the Greek societies on my campus labeled it a hate article and me as a Greek hater. Your description of their mentality of “They are either with us or against us” seems right on the ball.”</p>
<p>And this is what I have seen on these boards. This woman had a valid opinion and wanted an open discussion, and instead got slammed.</p>
<p>"A non Greek guy can pressure a non Greek girl to have sex with him, too, ya know. "</p>
<p>Yes, and people can drink too much who aren’t in fraternities, etc., etc. but that’s not the point. This is about Ritualized Behavior that leads to overconsumption of alcohol, pressure to have sex, go along with the group despite ones beliefs or best interests. That makes a huge difference.</p>
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<p>Hmm, you are making a lot of assumptions here. Do you have a copy of this woman’s editorial piece? Aren’t you the one who was unable to discern any bias or “slams” in mini’s and ACCecil’s posts? How do you know this woman’s article was valid or accurate or unbiased or not intended to inflame if you haven’t seen it?</p>
<p>Okay, a third point. I had dinner with my niece last night who went to Duke, and asked her about how it worked there. She said about 40 percent of kids were Greek, and told me how the residences were divided. She thought the problem with Greek life was that it divided the community. People stuck with their very well defined groups and didn’t tend to branch out. (of course I don’t mean in all instances!) she thought it had a negative impact in this regard. She also said the frat system marginalized the LGBT community even more than they normally would be.</p>
<p>I went to a college that didn’t have frats. We still had very active social lives. We still made friends for life. Sure there were groups of friends, but there wasn’t this sense of us/them exclusivity that Greek life appears to create.</p>
<p>Again, I am giving you my idea, I am not slamming the Greeks. This is not black or white. It doesn’t cover all instances.</p>
<p>Bay, Im sorry I was vague. I was talking about the original piece we read.</p>
<p>Bay, instead of trying to find fault in every single thing I write can you at least for a second not be reactionary and try to see what I am saying. I am open to pro-Greek ideas, especially those presented by MizzBee who seems so genuine and thoughtful. I am writing in shades of grey. Don’t you see any problems with ritualized behaviors as practiced by fraternities?</p>
<p>I got the “slams of bias” in ACCecils piece but I really really hated the personal remarks he received. That’s what I responded to. Plus, he was someone who had first-hand experience with Greek life, so I think his opinion was scorned too quickly. Mini seems extremely well informed. I feel like you are the one who has been slamming me with your bias. I am trying to see all sides.</p>
<p>No Bay, there is no link to her article in the comment. But that is a distraction. </p>
<p>While I appreciate that many can post how Greek life improved their lives, their children’s lives and opened them up to new opportunities.</p>
<p>No one can show that all of those things couldn’t happen without Greek life by just belonging to a club or joining with dorm mates to accomplish a cause, have a party, organize and protest an injustice, learn leadership skill etc.</p>
<p>Can one person tell everyone how any of the wonderful things Greek life offers ONLY be accomplished with it? Especially, given all the negatives that are posted of the problems with greek life. </p>
<p>Tell us how being Greek is superior than being in a club with a cause. </p>
<p>Find us all articles that show how “the Outdoor club” or the “Ski team” was cited for the type of the accusations that multiple fraternities and sororities are accused of. </p>
<p>Objectively show us how Greek life single handedly can improve a student’s life, not just how it helped yours or your child’s.</p>
<p>Colleges already have alumni organizations that have nothing to do with Greek life, that can help students get jobs, so don’t post that as an example.</p>
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<p>Ok, now I am even more confused. I read all of the comments to the editorial, and I thought the vast majority of them were very thoughtful, many in support of the writer’s comments, with very few “slams.”</p>
<p>There were some thoughtful comments, but you must have been reading something different than I did, because there were definitely some slams.</p>
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<p>What do you mean by “ritualized behaviors?” If you mean activities that they engage in year after year as traditions, then no. If you mean putting on robes and making speeches by candlelight - eh - I am not religious and those church-type rituals always creeped me out a bit, but I don’t see a “problem” with them. Am I answering your question?</p>
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<p>If you are going to criticize Greek organizations on the basis of their membership policies you might as well criticize the thousands of other fraternities or brotherhoods that have existed for many centuries starting with Freemansonry which is at the source of many of the current modern college fraternities with their rituals and chapters. </p>
<p>What purpose can be accomplished by the thousands of fraternal organizations that could not be accomplished without them? All the following are considered fraternal organizations with restrictive membership policies:</p>
<p>-Rotary
-Kinwanis
-Lions Club
-Elks
-B’nai Brith
-Illuminati
-Freemasons
-Samaritans
-The International Red Cross (check its statutes!)
The list goes on and on…</p>
<p>Is it better to be a member of a fraternity such as Rotary or the Red Cross or volunteer for NGOs such as Habitat for Humanity or Doctors without Borders? Each has a role to play. Many fraternal organizations will argue that the ties between their members are much stronger which allows them to accomplish objectives that would be difficult within traditional structures. Outsiders will often see them as cults, and exclusionary.</p>
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<p>Non Greek here: Why must it be proved to be superior? Assuming no hazing or other horrible behavior, why can’t it be just as good, personal preference, or some other factor?</p>
<p>Hazing at Northwestern University outdoor orientation trip.</p>
<p>[In</a> Focus: P-Wild faces issues of hazing similar to Greek groups but without same oversight - The Daily Northwestern - Northwestern University](<a href=“http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/in-focus-p-wild-faces-issues-of-hazing-similar-to-greek-groups-but-without-same-oversight-1.2578229]In”>http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/in-focus-p-wild-faces-issues-of-hazing-similar-to-greek-groups-but-without-same-oversight-1.2578229)</p>
<p>A lot of really smart people do really stupid things…Greek and not Greek.</p>
<p>There just isn’t a “one size fits all” answer here. Greek life varies greatly from campus to campus and from house to house. I could see my D being a member of my sorority, as it was 40 years ago. I could not see her as a member of many of the sororities on campuses today. The issue she sees among friends on other campuses who have joined is the push towards conformity. She is just too independent. Way back when, we were a very eclectic group and we each had good friends in other sororities and continued to be friends with those who never pledged. That was, in part, because we could only live in the sorority house our senior year so we were less clickish. </p>
<p>I don’t really care whether there are positive things associated singularly with Greek life or not. Everyone has needs met in many different ways.</p>
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<p>Regarding Freemasons…there seems to be a growing shortage of younger people who are interested in joining in the greater Boston area during the early to mid '00s. They were placing ads in the local newspapers and other publications. </p>
<p>That was how a younger friend found out about then and joined after college. Has been enjoying it…but did remarked most of the membership in the Boston area chapters had few members below the age of 40 or more so…twentysomethings like himself.</p>
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<p>This cracked me up. I was a staff member for a student advisory group in college, and part of our training involved an outdoor trip, during which several members ate “magic mushrooms,” took outdoor showers in the nude, and had serial sex in the cabin. If you think drugs, sex and alcohol only go on in the Greek system during college, you are very naive.</p>
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<p>That sounds more like law school to me, but I recognize my law school experience may have been different from others.</p>
<p>What about serial sex? It didn’t happen when we were in college.</p>
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<p>Come on, people. Most sanctioned social events by university organizations don’t arrange it so you have to sleep in the same bed as a member of the opposite sex.</p>