<p>(High five) to Momsdream.</p>
<p>I stand by my earlier advice (I think it's another version of what you are hearing here): don't be another stressor in her life. It's entirely possible that Fred pressured her to spend the weekend with him... we don't know. The thing you don't want to do is be another person that she can't possibly please, because she's bending over backwards trying to do things that will make him happy.</p>
<p>Actually late, for your $100 you got what you had been wanting. A whole group of daughter's friend up close and personal with Fred. Anyone who has ever been on a serious team knows that relationships are strong. Your team has your back, and I'm certain if they saw bad things daughter heard about it.</p>
<p>Careful kirmum. You're falling into a frequent trap. You can't expect to be able to assess someone and tell whether they fit into some categotry to be abused or controlled. This is where outsiders, family members and the victims themselves fall prey. These usually rean't women who appear to be insecure. These guys don't really get any sense of power from controlling a mouse. They seek the bigger challenge - the control of someone who appears strong and self-sufficient. And, often enough, these women meet these men and recognize who they are - but believe that they are strong enough to control him in return. Many of them women are dominant personality types - which is what gives them the stamina to stay in the game. Strong, secure females are very much a part of this. There are all kinds of women in these situations. think about it.....the women who showed up to my weekly meeting were telling their husbands, boyfriends where they were going "hey, I'm going to meet with a bunch of other women so I can figure out how to drop YOU!" It takes a great deal of strength to look someone in the face and say that when you know he might just knock you out for it - but they did it week after week. </p>
<p>Better cast those old stereotypes aside.....they're not making this any easier for victims and survivors!</p>
<p>LTS, I agree with Kirmum about the team. I was glad to read about that. 10 of her teammates spending a weekend with Fred in his space? She's sure to get an earful, if there is anything to be said. I do find it odd that the team split up like that. Are you sure this was really a team outing that split up? Aren't teams usually pretty "rah rah" about sticking together 100%? That seems really strange. And, I think $100 is about right for a weekend where she's buying herself 3 meals a day and gas. Plus, eating and drinking at theme parks is a HUGE expense. Even with a season pass, I can see spending $40 on food/drink for a full day at the park. </p>
<p>To answer your other question about whether or not this seems like it could turn abusive physically, I have no idea. I don't think I could even call that if I personally knew them for years. I can say that nothing you said really alarms me after thinking abou it last night...except the following to the airport, which is so weird it doesn't even fit any patterns that I would call warning signs. It also doesn' seem like he's alienating her. He's inviting her friends over and taking her to his family functions with his parents, etc.....It seems more like she's alienating you, unfortunately. </p>
<p>If you really want to know what I think you should do....I think you should go find yourself your own "distraction" (i.e. man - hottie - maybe a few years younger than you - the "Stella" approach) and let your D sort this out on her own. She's stong and smart - she won't mess up too badly. When I read you typing all of that a gentleman does this and doesn't do that ...well... if I was your D I wouldn't tell you ANYTHING with you having that attitude about it all. Maybe your D doesn't want a gentleman right now....and there's nothing wrong with that.</p>
<p>Momsdream, perhaps I didn't explain what I mean well. I did quite a bit of research on this 2 years ago when my youngest sister was in trouble. She is, on the surface, a powerhouse. Certainly many abused women appear to be strong on the outside and indeed have some strong characteristics. But the bottom line is that a woman with healthy self esteem gets out or is too aware to get involved. Many of us have norms from childhood that are not normal at all. But if you've been mentally abused all of your life it feels normal and it has eroded your self esteem.</p>
<p>ariesathena & momsdream, your perspectives are so valuable from having been "inside" this sort of relationship.</p>
<p>latetoschool, I am so sorry to hear your daughter is caught up in this mess. It must be really frightening for you. </p>
<p>I would be tempted to take her off for a surprise trip to Mexico for two weeks where the cell phone would not work. But I would defer to experts because I don't know what might escalate the bad behavior of a guy like this. He sounds mentally ill. </p>
<p>BTW mental ilnesses often manifest in the college years. It might appeal to your D's compassion/caretaking side if you could illustrate that Fred "needs help," that his problems go beyond her ability to solve...</p>
<p>I edited my above post - see last few paragraphs for advice LTS.</p>
<p>"Strong, secure females are not victims here" Actually, the research I have done belies that idea. I have read that "strong, secure females" are an added challenge to abusers and are thus not exempt from being prey to abusers and succumbing to them.</p>
<p>I hesitate to post because while I think it can be helpful and supportive for Latetoschool to hear from other parents, we still do not know enough and I am not sure we can help much other than to be here to listen and give perspectives. I think a professional might be useful for mom to talk to as well. </p>
<p>I kinda think it is a combination of things here and do not agree with some of the posts. Aries, I totally understand your perspective. I am very well read on emotionally and verbally abusive relationships. From the original posts, by LatetoSchool, I did not see this scenario as full of warning signs....other than some inklings of some control or obssessive aspects. I have not yet seen too many of the other indicators. This does not mean it is not an abusive relationship, but I did not hear enough here to indicate that it is. </p>
<p>I see that mom does not like this boyfriend. I understand that and it is hard for her to watch. Some of the anecdotes she shares, I don't think are that unusual in a teen relationship. The cell phone stuff....the being together alot....I even think the anecdote about his giving the mom gifts at XMAS time are not so bad. I think he knows she does not like him and he was trying to kinda win her over a bit. He can see how she is working against the relationship. I do think the number of calls per day are excessive but sometimes her D does blow him off and so he keeps persisting. He may be very needy and sounds like he has emotional issues from his own past (ie., has not spoken to his mom or sister in seven years). He obviously is very obssessed with her daughter but she also is into him. I understand mom is not happy with this boy but she cannot stop her D from being with him, as much as she would like to. </p>
<p>I think there ARE some things mom can intervene on, however. First, if the D's GPA and related things are suffering due to the relationship, she needs to first, discuss with her how someone's life's goals (med school, varsity team, girlfriends, etc) should not suffer for ANY boy. Fitting in a boyfriend is a juggling act, but her own goals should not be put on hold for any boy. A boyfriend will want the girl to keep on pursuing her studies, team, etc. He may use up all her free time and she may not have time for the girls, etc. but her grades and grad school dreams and what not should not be impacted. I would talk about balance and not letting boyfriend stuff keep her from her goals. If her schoolwork is truly suffering (that is still not completely clear to me), I would intervene in terms of you are supporting her schooling and you can have standards if you want as to what you expect for what you are willing to do to support her educational goals. I would keep this separate from the boyfriend issue. If you harp on why you don't like this boy, you can't keep her from dating him....and may make her even more attached to him just to show you. Focus on the other things you see suffering and if these are studies, then set your standards if you are paying for it. Same with some of the smaller issues....like if he calls during your outings or meals together, insist that the cell phone is turned off or that she tells him to not call during this time and that she will get back to him at a particular time. You can set a standard for while she is with you of this nature. Same with when you gave her money for the team outing. If she is doing this outing with some of the team, but just staying at Fred's, I guess I might not complain about the money but if it was just her visiting Fred, that's not what you gave her the money for so I would discuss that. Normally, however, I think if you give her an "allowance" at college, I am not sure to what extent you should discuss everything she does with it. I know I don't. The way the kids stayed at Fred's, and not your house, is not far fetched in my opinion. I mean it is more fun to stay at another kid's place, not the parent's place. Sorry, but it's true. Many kids might have chosen what she chose. </p>
<p>I know this boy has some problems and he does seem overly obssessed and demanding but I don't hear your daughter complaining about him or wanting him to stop. The idea of leaving her books about controlling relationships, might be a good idea if she does not take it the wrong way. But I think rather than try to discourage the relationship, I would focus more on other things like her schoolwork, med school aspirations, summer plans, team expectations, or other things likek that....IF you see these suffering, those are within reason to be discussing with your daughter or even having standards or the issue of your funding these if not up to snuff, etc. If that discussion dovetails into that the boyfriend takes up so much time so that the rest is suffering, fine. Don't focus on HIM so much but focus on the rest and also in general terms of how to balance a relationship with other goals and interests. If the focus appears to be your not liking this particular boy (which DOES seem like the issue because you said if it were another boy you might not feel the same), that is not going to be "heard" by your daughter and in fact, I don't think you can stop a girl that age from seeing a boy. I think you need to focus on HER and on relationships in general and so forth. When a parent tries to keep a kid from dating a particular other kid, it ain't gonna stop them. I don't think that is a tact to take. </p>
<p>Now, IF the boy is truly abusing her, then you need to talk about that or if your D is coming to you for help (does not seem to be the case). </p>
<p>As far as it being a verbally abusive relationship, I don't think there is enough to go by here to determine that. There are just a few early signs but I don't see all the symptoms from what you posted. He does seem overly obssessed and demanding and that could be a sign, but I don't see the other signs of abuse and I can't tell from these posts if he controls her to a negative extent. It seems to me, as well, that some of these things she is doing, SHE is choosing to do because she wants to, not because he is making her. </p>
<p>Best of luck.
Susan</p>
<p>Wow - such a complicated situation. It occurs to me that, as someone said earlier in the thread, everyone may be right - Fred may be a mentally ill abuser, d may be asserting her independence, and latetoschool may be having a difficult time separating - not in a physical sense, but from the ideal she's held of what appears to be a pretty much perfect kid. I learned more than I ever wanted to know about this when my previously ideal first child started making decisions that challenged values I labored to instill and assumed we shared. The short version is that, 18 months and many maternal tears later, my d is wiser, much more adult, and our relationship is stronger than ever. But it certainly hurt getting here!</p>
<p>One point I'd like to raise is that it's easy for parents to see their children who are outstanding achievers (like LTS's d) as being unwaveringly sure about their beliefs and their futures. They seem so adult even in hs, managing time superbly, embodying the values of hard work and dedication and responsibility, choosing to limit their fun to parentally acceptable activities, etc. They appear fully evolved already, almost as if they don't need to make mistakes in order to learn life's lessons. Except - just about everybody does. To me, it seems likely that LTS's d is rejecting some of the values with which she was raised, because she needs to establish her own (which may very well turn out to be those latetoschool would want for her, when all is said and done). </p>
<p>In response to GPA concerns - med school is NOT reserved for those who maintain a 3.6 or better, as stated in the original post, particularly for students in demanding majors. My husband interviews applicants for our local med school, and he tells me that kids with 3.0s or better from well-regarded schools will have a very good chance at admission, if MCATs and recs are strong and the student is sincerely drawn to medicine. Latetoschool, you're probably worried about your d's professional future as well as her emotional well-being, but her chances at med school remain strong, provided she still wants a career in medicine.</p>
<p>More food for thought as you try to sort through this LTS. But, see if any of this feels like it fits Fred or your D.</p>
<p>Following is a commonly used list of characteristics of codependency. </p>
<p>My good feelings about who I am stem from being liked by you
My good feelings about who I am stem from receiving approval from you
Your struggle affects my serenity. My mental attention focuses on solving your problems/relieving your pain
My mental attention is focused on you
My mental attention is focused on protecting you
My mental attention is focused on manipulating you to do it my way
My self-esteem is bolstered by solving your problems
My self-esteem is bolstered by relieving your pain
My own hobbies/interests are put to one side. My time is spent sharing your hobbies/interests
Your clothing and personal appearance are dictated by my desires and I feel you are a reflection of me
Your behaviour is dictated by my desires and I feel you are a reflection of me
I am not aware of how I feel. I am aware of how you feel.
I am not aware of what I want - I ask what you want. I am not aware - I assume
The dreams I have for my future are linked to you
My fear of rejection determines what I say or do
My fear of your anger determines what I say or do
I use giving as a way of feeling safe in our relationship
My social circle diminishes as I involve myself with you
I put my values aside in order to connect with you
I value your opinion and way of doing things more than my own
The quality of my life is in relation to the quality of yours</p>
<p>I am not sure how relevant this is to LTS's D's situation but I wanted to note that it took me until my early 30s to realize that I was attracted to men that needed "fixing", thinking it would be so satisfying to be the one to "fix" them. It was instead a collosal waste of half my life to that point. It was very seductive to think of myself as the one who could make someone else all better.</p>
<p>
Ariesa, although I have a different pov on much of this than you, I totally agree w you here. </p>
<p>Key point to me: altho it is v helpful to suggest that LTS consider that D/Fred might be in an abusive relationship, as some posters have done; imho, no one on this board should presume to authoritatively diagnose that this is the case, as some posters have done. Folks, this is someone's real life and we don' have enough info, even if qualified, to diagnose the relationship. I believe if there were (is?) a licensed SW/phsycol/fam couns or even MD psychiatrist on this board s/he would decline to advise without face time with those involved. Support from us is one thing. Stepping out of our appropriate roles - I, for one, think is counterproductive or could be dangerous.
Any chance he, like mom, wanted to see her off/say good-bye at airport and knew he wouldn't be welcome in mom's car, so followed along by himself? That was my first thought.</p>
<p>Soozie: not to nitpick, but this isn't a teen relationship. The D is 21 and a junior in college. If this were a high school relationship, I would not be so concerned - because I saw plently of people act like ninnies around the significant others.</p>
<p>LateToSchool: how about a call to the coach or team captain? This goes to the idea of on-the-spot reconnaissance - you might need someone to let you know what happened that weekend. Just me, but I would ask her for the $100 back. Say that you gave it for a specific purpose (the same outing she went for the last two years), and, as it was used differently (hello! 12 hour drive home to visit him!), you are asking for it back. Don't make it passionate or dramatic - just say that if she's visiting a friend, with or without team members, it's on her own dime, not yours. If she's doing something with the entire team, you'll help. Don't make it about seeing Fred.</p>
<p>I wouldn't want to diagnose any relationship when we are only hearing one side of the story, and especially since I haven't heard what other adults have to say namely the dad or a therapist, the sense I am getting is that the mom is trying to control her adult daughters relationship without her daughter asking for help.
I don't hear that her daughter is being physically or emotionally damaged, I would give the daughter more credit for recognizing what she wants from a relationship</p>
<p><edit>
I wouldn't discourage your daughter from seeing him , get to know him, invite him over, allow her to see him through your eyes, but she won't do that if you are trying to keep them apart. Invite him to your home, but be gracious and allow your self to see what your daughter sees in him.</edit></p>
<p>Imagine that unhealthy behaviors go on some sort of one to ten scale. Obviously Fred does not appear to be at the "ten" of physical abuse. But he is also not at the "one" of a really supportive, balanced, non-obsessed boyfriend, either. Obviously he is a troubled young man. How many 20 year old guys sob to their brand new GFs? </p>
<p>Young women can feel flattered by this consuming attention and confuse it with deep romantic love. I have seen some needy behaviors in young men interested in my D (my step D) and what I saw as their insecurity she saw as depth of their affection. If noone is hitting anyone, it is easy to see the jealousy, frequent calls, etc, as 'how crazy he is about me.' Kids may not realize that secure people do not need to know the detailed story of every move their significant other makes. Secure people do not call on a 24 hour clock. I have been wildly in love, long distance, at age 20, calling a bunch-- but this calling pattern way exceeds all normal bounds. </p>
<p>It is also difficult to say "no" to someone whose world turns on whether you're caretaking him or not. What soft hearted person could do this? My D's needy BF was also apparently misunderstood by parents, parents favored sister, etc... This basically made my D the only person who gave him happiness. Way too much pressure to redeem his entire life.</p>
<p>Fortunately she began to be irritated by his checking up, his jealousy about her male friends, and his questions-- and she backed away. </p>
<p>Not to cast any aspersions on your single mom status, but there are certain unavoidable aspects that may have bearing here. Many kids feel quite responsible for caretaking their divorced parents (even when the parents do not encourage this) especially if the other parent has remarried. I have seen this in my D, whose mom never remarried. You have not answered Q about your D's father & that whole situation...</p>
<p>My H was actually the one who pointed out that my D's needy boyfriend was pressing her "caretaker" button; a button that had surely developed when as a young child she had to live between two homes, sometimes (I am ashamed to say) mediate the disputes of angry parents including me, and show everyone that they were loved, etc. When two homes run in diametrically different ways, the atmposphere of competition is almost implicit-- if they say no, & she says yes; whose way is "right"? </p>
<p>My D was also very concerned about her mom being lonely, etc. Kids take this on even when all the parents are behaving correctly. We tried to behave correctly and to take pressue off her as much as possible, but sometimes there are conflicts that just erupt (often stupid irritations like kid being brought home late by other parent, so now we're all late for some event, hassled, etc) and the poor kid is in the middle & feels responsible.</p>
<p>I echo the advice above not to put her in the middle between you & Fred. DO NOT COMPETE WITH FRED. Invite him to Xmas etc. Do as much as you can to praise her, love her, make her feel good & include Fred. </p>
<p>One "bad move" I can see was your reluctance to open the gifts. If your D is spending time with Fred's parents, he should be invited over more than <em>twice</em> to hang out with you. Bring him into the fold, don't push him away. Because they are so enmeshed, if he is pushed away, so is your D. Don't be "one more thing" consipiring against poor, misunderstood Fred. Try to bite your tongue and go overboard to be charitable. If he cares what you think of him (presents, note) I say take the opening.</p>
<p>My father once gave me great advice about a friend I worried was with the wrong man. He said, don't make her pick between this guy and you. If you go out on a limb criticizing him, she'll have to drop <em>you</em>, and then you won't be there to help her if/when your fears come to pass.</p>
<p>Good Luck.</p>
<p>That is why I hesitated to post too because we don't know enough here but on the other hand, can be a sounding board or support. I do feel that some are making a jump to diagnose this as an abusive relationship because while it could be, I did not hear enough information that divulged all the usual symptoms. I also hear this being a situation where mom just does not like this boyfriend, which I can sympthasize with but it is not like her daughter is coming or looking for help. </p>
<p>Aries, I had a feeling when I wrote "teenage", that you would pick up on that but I should have used "college aged" or young adult relationship, sorry. Some of the stuff mom wrote here, was not that that atypical of some relationships at that age. The excessive calling sounds a big much but without some other big warning signs, in itself is not completely outrageous at that age. I think two to three times per day might be more normal but unless I heard that he was making her account to him for every move or something like that, I would not just be concerned over the constant attention which she also seems to be partaking in. If he called too often for her taste, she might have said, please only call between such and such time or leave just one message until I call you back, something like that. I can't tell if the D is truly not happy with the relationship but more that mom is. I think right now all that mom can concentrate on are the other things, such as supporting her education and stuff like that that is more of her business. Again, she could converse about relationships in general, not specific to this boy, such as not letting a relationship get in the way of her personal goals, and so forth. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>emerald, SB and soozie - Great perspectives and advice. LTS, can you see some of these ideas as working for you?</p>
<p>Whew. I am bleery-eyed just trying to get through these posts, and I confess that the last page or so were only skimmed. Each post is looooong and chock full of thoughts, ideas, opinions, etc. My only comments, as a psychologist are :</p>
<p>(1) Sorry-- I don't buy the "I don't have time" excuse to not pursuing professional help for you or our daughter. You are obviously concerned, and the amount of time spent on this thread could have been spent with a professional who can be supportive and objective. Ditto for your daughter who "doesn't have time" to go, yet spends so much time with this guy and his issues. While true, at 21 you cannot force her to go, you can agree to each hear an independent opinion of the situation and make decisions from there. Also, if her acquiring an apt off campus is contingent on your financial support, you have a big "hook" as it were. Make the time to go to see someone, and perhaps you two can each make this committment in order to save your relationship. Perhaps talking to someone will give you an alternative view of this guy-- who knows. And seeing someone now can help avoid a potential bigger disaster down the road. That said, I do feel your d. needs to take ownership of her choices. She may need to fail somewhere in order for her eyes to open a bit. A a bright, D1 athlete, pre-med, she has probably had little experience with failure. Maybe it is time. Maybe you could go see someone together for family therapy when she is in town. Is your family just the 2 of you? Don't have time to go?? MAKE the time. If it is important to you (which it sounds like it is) you need to make it a priority.</p>
<p>(2) I tell many of my patients that "no one is blameless" in a relationship. She may be being abused, but she may also be overtly or covertly encouraging this behavior. She may like the attention. You mentioned somewhere way back that this Fred guy has no relationship with his mom. To the degree that your d. is overly supportive and always there, she may have become his surrogate mother figure. That isn't healthy either.</p>
<p>(3) It sounds like your d. has two parallel lives- the time she spends with family and the time she spends with Fred/school. Do you want it this way? When my s. had girlfriends here, he brought them over, we went out to dinner, etc. I got to know them and form my own opinion. You are inadvertently putting your d. in the position of defending this guy. Why don't you suggest a dinner together when she is in town? </p>
<p>These should be good starting points. I don't want my post to be any lengthier. Good luck.</p>
<p>Thank you all so much for responding. Even if I cannot quite keep up with all of your thoughts and input, it is helping me very much to be able to hear differing points of view. This has been troubling me greatly for quite some time.</p>
<p>To those who have asked, D's father is deceased. Accident some weeks prior to our wedding 21 years ago, drunk driver/hit and run. I have not remarried, but have no shortage of opportunities. </p>
<p>Emeraldkity, I need some help understanding your point of view. You posted that I am attempting to control D's relationship. The evidence is uncontrovertible: in precise timing with the advent of this relationship, gpa is dropping, lifelong friends are shoved out, normal activities are dropped, living space is not maintained, commitments are not kept, day to day responsibilities are being neglected, money is spent/not managed/not budgeted, health and sleep is compromised, life goals are no longer being pursued. When might it be more appropriate for me to inquire? Perhaps when gpa deteriorates to the point where $20K/year in academic scholarship is gone? </p>
<p>As far as inviting him over - he's been here three times. The first time, we were at the very beginning of landfall of a cat 3 hurricane. He arrived to deliver something to D. Just minutes before he arrived, a huge tree crashed into my neighbor's home, destroying most of the garage roof and front portion of their house. I would not allow him to leave, made him stay here. In my opinion it was simply too dangerous, he is only 20, not nearly enough experience driving in bad weather, and I couldn't let him go back out on the roads, personal feelings aside. I was not expecting to do this but made an instant, on-the-spot decision. He didn't argue one bit, obviously. </p>
<p>Keeping a house secure during a major hurricane is a bit of work, so I was busy enough not to notice him too much. It wasn't too bad having him around, and he was actually nice, polite, courteous, etc. Quite frankly, I was too frightened and worried about major property damage to think too much about him. Problem was, he didn't know enough to understand that he was supposed to leave at some point. Three days later, long after the hurricane had passed and the cleanup was complete, he was still here. Finally, out of frustration, and fresh out of all variations of polite suggestions, I left for several hours, and when I returned home that night he was finally gone. </p>
<p>Second time, I invited him over for brunch the Sunday following Thanksgiving. He was very polite and courteous then, too. Actually, he was rather pleasant to have around. I am also now remembering that I asked D if she wanted him to come with us to the airport. She said no - it was too hard on him, too difficult for him to say goodbye. That was the time he followed us to the airport. D was as surprised at this as I was.</p>
<p>Third time, I impulsively invited him over for dinner one night over Christmas break. That went well - he actually did leave at a reasonable hour. Unfortunately, he showed up the next night for dinner too, without calling, and no invitation. Simply appeared and announced he was there to eat. It's the strangest thing I've ever seen anyone do, with the exception of the airport incident. </p>
<p>It's really exhausting, having him over.</p>
<p>frazzled says, "One point I'd like to raise is that it's easy for parents to see their children who are outstanding achievers (like LTS's d) as being unwaveringly sure about their beliefs and their futures. They seem so adult even in hs, managing time superbly, embodying the values of hard work and dedication and responsibility, choosing to limit their fun to parentally acceptable activities, etc. They appear fully evolved already, almost as if they don't need to make mistakes in order to learn life's lessons. Except - just about everybody does. To me, it seems likely that LTS's d is rejecting some of the values with which she was raised, because she needs to establish her own (which may very well turn out to be those latetoschool would want for her, when all is said and done)." </p>
<p>I couldn't agree more., and I also stand with the posters who recommended that Late see a therpist or someone who can help her sort out her feelings and help her deal with the situation with her D. If we can help her in any way, it would be to encourage her to find the RL help she needs.</p>
<p>When I think back on my own life at 20-21, I was heavily involved with a bf and some people probably thought the relationship was too intense for my age and stage of life. The boy, previously an academic star in HS, dropped out of college sophomore year because we were spending so much time together. He wasn't getting his work done, or even going to classes sometimes. He questioned his direction, goals in life - pretty much everything he had been doing up to that point. Some might see this as me being a bad influence on him, yet I think he would have gone through this stage with or without me, but my appearance in his life was no doubt the catalyst. We spent every free moment together. I was the initial instigator in the relationship, as my mom and step-dad were going through some bad times ( eventually divorced) and I our relationship gave me some stabilty, even if it threw him into a tailspin.
My mother was pretty upset that he dropped out of school, as I remember, especially since in those days the male was supposed to be first of all a good provider, and If he didn't even finish school, she had her doubts about his being good enough for me - even as a bf! Once I sensed her attitude, I cut off most of my sharing with her. She was seen, in my eyes, as not supportive because she questioned his actions and was critical of him. At that age, however, my own feelings (and his) were so much more compelling than any criticism my mom might have had.
I guess because of my own experience, I see your daughter and her bf as not being that unusual or inapropriate for their age, from what you've posted. It seems that you and she have been very close through the years - maybe too close- and that perhaps this boy is a vehicle for her finding her own path. Talking to a professional will help you determine whether you need be concerned or whether you should back off a bit. There's no way we on this board can know enough to really determine much.
Btw, my college bf and I did get married, in spite of my mom's misgivings.
We've been married for 34 years and have had a wonderful life.</p>