Unhealthy Relationships, Version Two

Parents Forum
81

<p>Well, you probably have more advice than you know what to do with. ;) </p>

<p>If I may summarize...
*Get thee to a psychologist. He can help you figure out what your problems are, how to deal with them, and how to deal with your D.
*Call the school psychologist. I don't buy "she doesn't have enough time." There's never enough time to NOT deal with these problems. School counselor can probably give you better perspective.
*Does she have an advisor? RA? Roommate? Give them a call and express your concerns.<br>
*Don't nag. Don't make it about Fred. Don't make it her issue. She might not be blameless, but "she's asking for it" is not the right attitude. Don't be another stressor.
*Really consider taking her away for a weekend - and leaving the cell at home.
*Continue talking to her priest. Perhaps he, as a disinterested party, could give her some advice or the aforementioned books.</p>

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<p>I agree about the psychologist. My experience with one was once when I was feeling particularly stressed out. I had taken on additonal responsibilities at work, had a 1 yr old D running around in diapers, had nanny who decided to move "home" to Georgia with only 2 week's notice and had just purchased 2 (TWO!) lab puppies. I had yet to realize that I wasn't a dog person. It was a few weeks before Christmas and the dogs were tearing up my house, had toppled the tree, etc. Eventually, my discussions with the psychologist became more nad more focused on the puppies. I was dreading each day when I went home to care for them. I hated to walk them in the cold and snow. One would bark all the time. My formerly lovely house with white living room decor was all smelly. My newly purchased ostrich skin coffee table had been chewed to bits. It was horrible. </p>

<p>So, the psychologist finally said "these dogs are not children! go home, pack them up and get rid of them!" I had never imagined that I could just give up on my responsibility to the dogs. I had always seen things through, no matter how hard. I remember being so relieved that I could just remove this burden form my life. They were part of my clutter - the chaos that I thought was normal and required of people. I went home and took the cuties to the humane society. One the way in a family pulled up in a van and two kids jumped out and fell instantly in love with the puppies (for which I had spent $500 a piece). Their lab had recenly died and they were finally ready for a replacment. Off they went with the puppies. We never made it into the building. </p>

<p>I think psychologist are really good at showing you the answers that are right in front of your face, but you don't see because of your own issues. We make life so much more complicated than it needs to be. They help us to uncomplicate things. It's so wild that they just sit there and listen to people talk for hours and hours....and in my experience they say very little. When they do talk, it's common sense stuff that we just overlooked. And they earn big bucks for this...LOL!! </p>

<p>I now know that I am not a dog person. We have a cat - one cat - that's it! I ignore the cat and she ignores me - and all is well.</p>

83

<p>I agree. I think late should seek some advice before she does anything else. Calling the coach/school psych/anyoneone else could really alienate daughter. If the therapist agrees there could be a problem, then make those calls or deal with them as he/she suggests. Let's keep in mind daughter is 21 and none of those people should even be talking to Mom about her.</p>

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<p>LTS....Thanks for the info about her dad. That loss must be tough for her. A reality to live with, but tough. In my circle, the children who lost parents in early childhood idealize that gender. </p>

<p>I've liked Aires advice all along but I think you should let the $100 go. Why put more stressors on? I think you were lucky to 'buy' a weekend with ten (athletic/competitive) girls living in Fred's studio apartment. Sounds like a nightmare! :) I am sure your D is getting a earful. She'd get an earful if he was Mr Wonderful, which he is NOT. So....this is the cheapest, best form of therapy I can think of. Your D is more concious than you think....Sit back and wait to see what happens. Those girls are rolling their eyes, you can count on it.</p>

<p>Now...while I thought your gut instinct was spot on in this case, there are aspects of your behavior which are too controlling for a 21 year old daughter. You should take the minutia of this story to a therapist for review, for your own growth and reflection. There seem to be aspects of your behavior which are maipulative and guilt-laden. Setting up 'special' dates for the two of you, dates which are designed to break your heart. You might want to redirect your relationship with your D or risk alienation. I would have been bristling if you called me on the carpet about the $100--or my GPA--or the boyfriend or the detailed check of my phone records. It's too much. </p>

<p>My Ss give me the springer spaniel eyes as soon as dinner is finished on Christmas or Thanksgiving--nevermind Easter. They want to be with their friends and I well remember that. I don't take it personally. After an appropriate hour, I let them go. It's a standing family joke when H and I got to the beach or the movies and ask if they want to come along. Of course they don't--95% of the time. Every once in a while they agree and we treasure those times. We don't expect them.</p>

<p>It is a peculiar design, that parent child thing. You love them more than anything on earth. From the time they are naked infants against your chest, that love never waivers. </p>

<p>Your child loves you just as much in the early years, but then they begin to break out of your arms and they love you a little less as they move farther and farther away. This is the natural progression of life. They don't love you as much as you love them. End of story. Oh well. </p>

<p>I don't love my parents as much as I love my Ss and H--and even a few of my friends. I am well past their embrace--though I do love them. </p>

<p>Anyway, I think the ten friends in Fred's apartment will do the trick--but then I think you might consdier a little reflection on the controlling aspects of your relationship with D....</p>

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<p>We can disagree over the money - but it wasn't given without strings, it was given for a single purpose, for which it was not used. Trips to visit friends can be on the kid's dime; trips with the team can be for the parents to pick up. It's not a Fred issue, it's a using money inappropriately issue.</p>

<p>I suggested calling the coach because I think he or she might be able to add some good perspective. He can say if there is fallout from her heading home instead of with the team; if she's going to her workouts; if she is in good enough shape to compete. He can even say if other team members even really did go with her to Fred's place, or if it was just her.</p>

<p>With those team trips, don't you need to make lodging plans in advance? If ten girls are no longer going, that's three or four rooms they needed to eventually cancel. It just really sounds fishy to me.</p>

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<p>LTS-
Sorry about the loss of your d's fa. I am a bit confused. Did he pass away before or after your marriage? It sounded like you said before the wedding, but then said something about remarriage. Either way, it must have been traumatic. Did you happen to get any therapy to deal with that trauma back then? If so, was it helpful? Are/were dau's paternal grandparents or your parents helpful/supportive, or have you been "on your own" for a long time? All of these issues can affect your sensitivity to the influence of outsiders.</p>

<p>Cheers has delicately addressed another issue. You have obviously raised a wonderful d. , but she may be rebelling, in her quest to achieve her own autonomy, or she might find a controlling relationship familiar. Please, I don't mean that in a negative way. You two may have had a very tight relationship, and she may be transferring that elsewhere. She may be trying to juggle what she feels is pressure from both of you. Again, I agree and reiterate, getting a professional, objective view may be helpful in looking at the big picture, in learning to step back and take risks without your anxiety level going through the roof and of course, your fear of another loss of a loved one is understandable. All of this is valid and manageable.</p>

<p>I don't know what you do for a living, but if you work for a big company, they sometimes have EAP (employee assistance program) services available that can help transition you to a good therapist. You are a concerned parent, who deserves guidance and support.</p>

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<p>Aresathena - I have no doubt that your advice is given with the best of intentions. I question, however, the wisdom of a parent calling a college coach for inside scoop on one's 21 yr.old daughter regarding her boyfriend. Maybe I'm completely missing something, but I think it's time for mom to get her own counseling, and try to give her daughter a little breathing room.</p>

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<p>my point of view
I have been married to my husband fr almost 24 years.
When we met ( when I was 18) his parents didn't like me because they thought I had broken up a longterm relationship in which the next step was marriage( he broke it off 3 months before he met me)
They still don't like me, I haven't seen them for 8 years even though we are in the same city, because they are so cold to me. My husband sees them 2 or 3 times a year, they see the girls, once a year. Their refusal to accept that my husband is an adult, has a family seperate from the one he had when he was a child with them has affected their relationship with their son and their grandkids. I have tried to identify just what it is that bothers them, but I decided to move on.</p>

<p>When we are adults, we make choices about the path our life takes and we live with the consequences. If we haven't had to live with consequnces before, the stakes do often get higher as an adult. this young man does sound very hormone driven/excessively needy but your daughter is an adult, and if she loses something like her academic scholarship, that really sucks, but she will deal with it.
When we have difficulties is where we learn things.
My daughter had to retake a critical course that she failed her junior year.
She is currently at home taking it at the community college, and working.
( actually right now she is at her college visiting her friends)
It has been really disappointing to her that she is not on campus this year, that she won't graduate with her friends from freshman year.. but she had things she needs to do, and things to work out.
Our lives have their own schedule, we can't overly plan them, and we sure can't plan someone elses past the point where we are drpping them off and picking them up everyday!
She has the knowledge of whether her life is going the way she wants inside of her, be there for her, but don't try and determine that for her, or you may be like my husbands parents, cut out of his life.</p>

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<p>The issue Aries is that this is a 21 year old woman, not a minor. No one at the school has a right to talk about a student to a parent without the student's permission. So what if the team didn't go to Fred's with daughter? She is an adult and it's frankly none of a parent's business. As stated by many posters, Mom has certain leverage based on financial support. She has every right to tell daughter she will withdraw financial support if performance peramiters she sets are not met. She does not have to give daughter spending money if she does not like how it is spent. But that's where a parent's rights end for adult offspring.</p>

90

<p>LTS may be feeling picked on, at this point. LTS, every parent on here has had their day at one point - where people disagree with something they've said or done. Today just happens to be yours. </p>

<p>Here is what you said that made me really sit up and take note that some of this may be your issue:</p>

<p>" I also had a comfort level knowing that the destination was only about a three hour drive from campus, so I thought that perhaps not too much homework would be neglected." </p>

<p>This sounds like something the parent of a 9th grader would say. Even 17 yr olds who are in high school shouldn't be managed through their homework and study schedules. You shouldn't be familiar with her study schedule or homework load.</p>

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<p>ASAP: which I have said (many times). That does not, however, negate the need to ensure that her daughter is fine. The coach call would be to determine what on earth is happening during a supposedly team activity. Coaches are also in the best position to evaluate the mental health of students - teachers see them 3 days a week in class for a semester, not six times a week for a workout over several years. Coaches also find out about academic progress (to some extent), as many schools have minimum eligibility requirements. LTS does need someone at the school to give her some on-the-spot information. Perhaps a friend on the team, if the coach is an issue?</p>

<p>I do NOT think this is a "breathing room" problem. If Mom is paying for any of college, paying for the cell, and the like, then she can dictate some of what happens, within limits. My college tuition was given under a few conditions: working hard, graduating within four years, going to class every day, and the like. My car was given under many more conditions - but, if I didn't like it, I was always free to figure it out on my own. </p>

<p>LTS: have you seen your d's fall report card? Actually, with your own eyes, seen the grades she has gotten?</p>

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<p>Aries, I don't want to belabor the point, but you'll probably be a mom someday.....If the coach feels a 21 year old has a problem, she needs to talk to her about it, not her parents. She can contact campus services, not the parents. When children take financial support for anything from a parent they have to live by the parent's rules and report to the parents of these matters. No one else reports to the parents.</p>

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<p>Momsdream - I had the same experience while reading through the thread last night and this morning. This passage about the homework was what prompted me to post. </p>

<p>LFS - I do have sympathy for you as you are obviously in pain and confusion. I hope you can find someone you trust in real life to help you through this passage, and to help you connect again with your daughter so that you can be friends for life. Best of luck to you.</p>

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<p>'Momsdream - yes, I can see incoming call numbers on our itemized cell phone bill. Before this fall, I never even ever glanced at the phone bill except to pay it. The thickness of the bills that began to arrive in September made me look - you know how your phone bill is usually just a few pages? Well, the first one that arrived in September was huge - I tore it open in a panick, expecting to see a balance due for hundreds of dollars. It wasn't - it was the normal amount, so I drilled into it, and there a simply huge numbers of calls from his number. On some days they are hourly. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are seven eight, 10, 12 a day - every single day. Most of the time, it's a one-minute call - obviously he's calling when she's in class etc. Sometimes they're at 5:30 in the morning and sometimes after 11 at night and so on.</p>

<p>Susequent phone bills have been the same. </p>

<p>I did ask her about it - and I told her it was very strange behavior. She said he calls so much because "I blow him off a lot" - in fact, she said, if she were him she wouldn't date her, because she "blows him off so much".</p>

<p>I have told her variations of "this is excessive" and "you do not have to answer" etc. to no avail.</p>

<p>How are you dealing with the issue of your son's young lady?"</p>

<p>If she insists on talking to him that much, then I would suggest you telling her to pay the bill with her own money. Maybe then she will get the hint.</p>

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<p>Wow. Usually the truth falls between both sides, and life is not black and white. This has been quite an exciting read!<br>
Ditto what Kirmum says: Your child IS AN ADULT. The school is not allowed to divulge grades and information to you, unless your daughter signed the release forms allowing this to happen.</p>

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<p>What were her grades? How far has her GPA dropped?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
For example, he works three jobs because his parents will not give him any money for college. Yet, his parents - both divorced and remarried - are building custom homes. And he has loans. And he's only 20. So the financial issues don't add up. He needs the three jobs because he has no money, yet, he always seems to have ample money - and time - to take my daughter to very expensive places - overnight visits to theme parks, lots of various outings, etc.</p>

<p>He has ADD or something like it, and will not take medication, but is graduating this year from his college with a 3.8 (English major). His parents will not help him with anything, and his Christmas was so miserable that he called my daughter crying because he received very poor gifts, compared to his sister who received very expensive gifts, yet, his parents seem to give him lots of money for other things.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>He sounds like a very hardworking and bright young man.
His parents sound manipulative, but I wouldn't blame him for that.
He also may feel from his background that he needs to spend money on your daughter to show his esteem.
I would get to know him better, as I assume you feel your daughter has good judgement in most things. SHe must see something in him.</p>

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<p>Just another thought... Your daughter must be INCREDIBLY busy. Taking a pre-med full load, student government responsibilities and D-1 sport practices takes up so much time. I don't know how you expect her to fit in a full social life with outside friends and boyfriend. If she's making it work w/ school, sports, government and boyfriend, she's a genius at juggling - and she's doing fine, even if the boyfriend is not who you'd pick for her.
I hope this all works out for you and you find a counselor who can help you find peace with your daughter's decisions and choices- and/or help you get assistance for her if a professional thinks that your daughter is in an abusive relationship. Growth isn't always without heartache!</p>

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<p>Aries -- I'm with the others who think that calling the coach or making an issue over the $100 are out of line. $100 just isn't that much money these days - and if this is the first time in 21 years that LTS has given her d. money for one thing and it ended up being spent on something else, then she is very lucky. (I mean, it's not like the d. went out and scored drugs with it.)</p>

<p>To LTS --
I think the part of problem may be that you are not letting her d. take ownership of her issues. You are absolutely RIGHT to be concerned, AND you should educate yourself through reading or consultation with a therapist as to how YOU can improve your relationship with your d. That is ALL you can do unless and until D. comes to you for help. Beyond that, you need to give d. room to feel make some mistakes and experience the consequences on her own.</p>

<p>As far as the financial support issues go, I think that you need to set your own boundaries, then let d. take ownership of the issues. The GPA and med. school are daughter's business, not yours. You are 100% within your rights to tell your daughter that you will not provide continued financial support if the GPA falls below a given level, or if the merit scholarship is lost.... but you shouldn't be nagging, questioning, or involved in figuring out d.'s homework schedule. </p>

<p>One of the things you may be missing - unfortunately - is that d. may be questioning her own education & career goals, and you are not giving her room for that. That is, it doesn't seem to be OK for d. to say, "mom, I've changed my mind, I want to be an English major". It really is not the parent's business whether the kid has a high enough GPA to get into medical school or not - that is you taking over and trying to manage your d's path to her stated goals. </p>

<p>Maybe d. sees Fred as "fun" precisely because Fred IS leading her somewhat astray, and away from the high-stress, high-pressure environment that school has become. I mean - going back to Momdream's post about the puppies ... maybe Fred is the one that is giving d. the permission she craves to let go of a goal that is overwhelming her. And if d. feels that you would never support her in change to a non-career-oriented major, or is afraid to admit that she no longer wants to be a doctor or is having difficulty with her courses, at least at some level psychologically she may want to fail in school. </p>

<p>So again: this is a very REAL problem, but you need to focus on it as YOUR problem, not your daughter's... at least until d. comes to you and asks for your help. Which will never happen until you back off and give your d. a lot of space to figure things out on her own -- when you nag, cajole, complain, suggest, or pressure you just force your d. to be defensive and make more excuses and rationalizations.</p>

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<p>Most non-family adults would be very hesitant to get involved in a students life; therefore, LTS could contact the coach- not asking him to tell her about confidential about thigns, but to relate in a SUCCINCT way that she has some concerns about influences on daughter's university behaviours. Coach does not have to tell mum anything but could be prompted to have that talk with D, if he's been seeing any borderline signs. The brief & unemotional call might be the catalyst prompting the next step, or could assugage mum's fears. Coach may say everything is great and that would be good to hear. If this problem is spilling over into the sports, I think the telltale sign would be what the coach does not say- when workingin confidential fields, you can learn a lot by what teachers/coaches refrain from saying, he may not say things are great, but he likely won't say things are bad, so a distinctly lackluster or non-report could be quite telling.</p>

<p>Also, I would only call the coach if I already had had some level of contact over the years, so that it idoes not come completely out of the blue.</p>

<p>It is very difficult to tell online what is going on, could be over-reactive codependent single parent or it could be "gut" instinct screaming at LTS. How many of us have had gut instinct awareness with no real proof of both good and bad things. I can always tell when DD is beginning to have chemistry with a new guy, sometimes it becomes something, sometimes not. That being said, you cannot tell D that the guy is a jerk when she is enthralled, you can only hope to plant the seeds that pick apart her perfect image of him.</p>

<p>How many of us could call Dr Laura (or any other radio guru) and briefly identify a problem with strong supporting proof, and yet you know the problem is there!</p>