<p>look at what u’ve done, u made hawkette appear.</p>
<p>Seriously, hawkette showed up, and her response is rationally POSITIVE about U-M!</p>
<p>Yo bearcats,</p>
<p>Reminder: When it comes to recruiting, you’re more competing against ppl in your school than ppl from other colleges. </p>
<p>By your senior year, you will have 1 BB S&T Sophomore and most likely 1 BB junior internship. If I remember correctly, your dad and uncle are partner and MD of McKinsey and GS. In terms of experience and network, I’m pretty sure you beat 99% (not exaggerating at all) of UofM undergrads as very very few of them will have a sophomore BB and these contacts.</p>
<p>Therefore, (keep in mind the reminder) I think your chance of landing a top job is higher at UofM than at other schools because ppl from Yale/MIT/Wharton is obviously a lot harder to beat than UofM kids. </p>
<p>I, similar to you, also came from a background where my cousins attend top schools and I’m in UM Honors. Coming from the east coast, I know the feeling sucks. But, once you graduate and land that BB job, you can laugh in their face.</p>
<p>Not everybody will be happy with their college decision. That’s why students transfer out of every single university in the nation. It is evident Bearcats has been unhappy at Michigan all along. I think transfering out would be a good option for him, although transfering out generally comes with several problems:</p>
<p>1) Changing campuses will hurt a student’s social and networking potential. It takes 4 years in one campus to build a good network and lasting friendships, typically starting as a Freshmen. Transfer students find it hard to transition into a new campus and often feel left out.</p>
<p>2) It only makes sense to transfer out of a school if it is at least as good academically and a better fit socially. Obviously, there are roughly 30-40 universities and colleges (10 LACs, 5 Publics and 20 private) that are of Michigan’s calibre out there, so the quality part is easy. The tricky part is making sure that he isn’t disapointed with the college he transfers into. He should research those schools better than he did the first time around or he may end up at a school that he likes no better…or even less than Michigan.</p>
<p>3) He had better have a legitimate reason because schools he is transfering into, future employers and even graduate programs are going to ask why he transfered.</p>
<p>If he feels that transfering out is right for him, he definitely should. At Michigan, I had a handful of friends who transfered out to other excellent universities (3 to MIT, 1 to Notre Dame and 1 to Stanford) and in most cases, the students were happy with their decision, although most admitted that transfering did not improve their college experience or their academic/professional outlook.</p>
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<p>Oh the irony…</p>
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<p>The weather is nice at Stanford</p>
<p>bearcats, when I made my initial post, most people were ignoring your thread. Now, members have given you lots of excellent advice. Alexandre stated his opinion. Heck, hawkette took the initiative to visit this forum and address your issue. Only you can decide your future. </p>
<p>However, since you’re an upperclassman, several have warned that transferring may work against you (I won’t repeat the negatives because others have already mentioned them). Think long and hard about your situation. Ask yourself whether it’s worth it.</p>
<p>I did not attend U-M for undergraduate study, and I don’t always agree with you. But you should keep this in mind: you only have three semesters left. Time flies. You are already in the privileged position to do wonderful things in life. You have access to opportunities and connections that most people can only imagine.</p>
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<p>What does legacy supposed to mean?</p>
<p>Probably one or both of his parents went there.</p>
<p>well this is irrelevant anyway… the prof, basically my mentor, who I was banking on a good rec on said he won’t write me a rec for transfer…</p>
<p>he said… “I’ll write you a rec for grad school if you ever need one, just not transfer. I can’t let you make a wrong decision at this point and commit career suicide.”</p>
<p>My question is, how would they know I was an upperclassman when I transferred? No one really looks at transcript before they hire you and for all I know I could even leave Michigan off my resume if I want. (you can selectively put things on resume as long as you dont lie).</p>
<p>Yes. Prestige is one thing. There are actually more factors.
- I hate the laidback environment at Michigan. I like a cutthroat, competitive environment where everyone’s always competing. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>I hate the caliber of students here. There are the truly bright ones, and then there are the truly stupid ones, the ones who should never get into college. Not saying there arent those at the ivies, but there are definitely more here. This makes me rarely study because if you are somewhat intelligent, you are starting at A- on the curve study or not. This actually hurts my grade because fact is I probably cant get an A if I dont study at all and get the little things down, but a businessman’s mentality would be, if the difference is between an A- and an A, is it worth going to classes? Is it worth studying hours? Probably no. This is starting to push me to take the 500 level classes because the masters students are actually really smart and it’s more fun. But why do I want to be at a school where I have to take mostly 500 level classes as a junior just to motivate myself? </p></li>
<li><p>I hate the technical career focus of COE at U of M. Whenever I talk to the career advisors at ECRC, it’s like all they know is how to get a job at GE, Eli Lilly and the likes. My friend at Penn engineering said their advisors are well versed in the careers outside of engineering.</p></li>
<li><p>This is probably the most important one. I can’t use my network of relatives for career help when I am at Michigan. I tried to ask one of my uncles to help and he said “see? that’s why you never should have gone to Michigan. If you went to MIT like I did, you would not need me to pass your resume along”. So now, whenever I reach out for help, they think I need help because I went to Michigan. So if I transfer to one of the schools above (maybe except for Stern), I could actually start using my network.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Surprisingly, I actually agree with some of bearcats’ points here (though I disagree with others).</p>
<p>Agree:
- Michigan students have really lowered my self-expectations. I used to only be satisfied with the highest score/near the highest score back in my HS (Stuyvesant), but here, I just don’t care that much, since the curve is so generous. I probably studied a lot more in HS than I do here, and during my freshman/sophomore year, that affected the amount of real knowledge I gained. However, that was still mostly my fault for somewhat relying on external influences for motivation. I’ve since changed that.</p>
<p>Disagree:
- The laid-back environment argument can go two ways, for me. Sometimes, I actually enjoy the laid-back environment. There was too much pointless competition for me back in Stuyvesant; people would compete for almost no reason and lose sight of the point of the class. On the other hand, it’s hard to find a fellow student for some friendly competition, though that’s probably just my fault for not having a very diverse group of friends. </p>
<p>If you really enjoy that type of environment (I used to), though, then Michigan was probably a bad choice for you.</p>
<p>HOWEVER, as others have said - you only have 3 more semesters! IMO, just endure it for a bit longer. There are things you can do to make your final semesters more enjoyable/useful. Stop relying on stuff like student quality/grades/curves for motivation; do things because they’ll increase your abilities/satisfy your self-set goals, whatever they may be. This might be hard for your major, though (I’ve never taken an IOE course), so I don’t really know. It’s easier for me (CS).</p>
<p>Anyway, that’s all I really have time for right now (been on hold for NWA for 40 minutes now…). Good luck!</p>
<p>@Some other people who posted - the hostility really doesn’t seem to be helping anyone</p>
<p>B’cats,
I wasn’t planning to post again, but one thing you wrote above really caught me. </p>
<p>Let me be very clear-be very, very careful with your resume. You may get a job with a top IB and then get bounced if they find “errors” or “omissions.” I have seen this several times. Different firms will have different standards-some will do background checks and some will do MAJOR background checks-but in today’s Wall Street environment, you don’t want to give anyone a reason not to keep you. You might get away with it, but really think hard about whether ABC Company is hiring you because of that (probably not). If you do transfer from U Michigan, I would NOT try to hide that. Unless the hiring firm is really stupid or really lazy, they will find out and then you could have a serious problem on your hands. </p>
<p>You’re a smart guy who I think is in a bit too much of a hurry. I think that your prof and others on this board are giving you good advice in saying stay where you are. There is a lot of good stuff to experience and to savor in a college environment and I hope you will do some exploration and taste a few flavors that might stimulate you. Whatever you do, good luck.</p>
<p>I also want to say that there is nothing wrong with taking master’s level courses. It will enhance your application for graduate school and certain careers. Northwestern also has a more laid-back environment from my experiences. It was probably my individual department, but I never felt like I was competing with my classmates. I was more interested in learning for learning’s sake.</p>
<p>Bearcats,</p>
<p>Interesting thread…I don’t understand why you are an industrial engineer rather than a business major. Part of your motivation problem may be that you aren’t really interested in studying industrial engineering. It also doesn’t make sense to me that Michigan Undergrad business would be looked down upon. From the numbers that Alexandre gives in terms of business majors hired from Michigan at top firms and Michigan Undergrad’s business rankings in USnews and business week I would have trouble understanding what this issue is.</p>
<p>With all that being said, I’m well aware that North-easterners can be dicks, and their sense of reality and entitlement is often not in line with the rest of the country.</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing bearcats. Your post is heartfelt and I appreciate that. I will address your points:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Prestige: Michigan is one of the most prestigious university in the nation. That is not an opinion or open for debate. The masses agree, as do the educated and corporate elites. For every naysayer, you will have several supporters. Every single sort of prestige rating has Michigan at the very top. Yes, Harvard is more prestigious, so are MIT, Princeton, Stanford and Yale. But Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, Northwestern and Penn are not more prestigious. Michigan belongs to a group of 2-4 or so publics, 5-10 LACs and 10-15 or so private universities that one notch below HYPSM in terms of prestige.</p></li>
<li><p>Laidback students. That’s Michigan for you. I am not sure you will find Brown or MIT students any different. But this is a valid reason. Schools like Dartmouth, Duke and Wharton would probably have been a much better fit. </p></li>
<li><p>Caliber of student: This is highly exaggerated on this forum. Michigan students are not so different from students at other elite universities. My uncle has taught Engineering at NU and at Michigan. Many PhD students I knew at Michigan did their undergraduate students at the schools you mentioned andled discussion groups at Michigan. Tenighs and several other posters here have experienced some of the private universities you listed and have mingled extensively with undergrads at Michigan and will also tell you the same thing. Finally, I did my graduate studies at Cornell and interacted a great deal with undergrads. There is virtually no difference between undergrads at Michigan and undergrads at most peer universities.</p></li>
<li><p>The technical nature of Engineering at Michigan: That’s definitely true, which explains why major PhD programs like Caltech and MIT and top tech firms like NG, LM, Microsoft, Google etc… love Michigan students. Unlike students at many other universities, Michigan Engineers are serious about Engineering. Other industries love Michigan Engineers too, but as you pointed out, the career office at the CoE is first and foremost focused on Engineering careers and firms. Your friend at Penn probably curses his career office for not having the connections to technical firms that Michigan has. I can tell you that my friends who went to Penn for Engineering could not land a job in Engineering as easily as my friends who studied engineering at Michigan. And for the record bearcats, you will have</p></li>
<li><p>I am not sure I understand why your uncle cannot help you? I can see how he cannot help you with his alumni network as alumni networks will only help their own alums, but can’t he help you in his professional circles? My uncles who attended MIT and Wharton helped me a great deal over the years, although the Michigan alumni network was more helpful. Quite frankly, if your “network” is not willing to help you because you attend Michigan, I am not so sure it will be willing to help you when you are at another school.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>“There is virtually no difference between undergrads at Michigan and undergrads at most peer universities.”</p>
<p>Bwahahahahaha. You must be joking. If you think overall Michigan kids are of the same caliber of kids from, say Duke or Brown, you must be seriously biased.</p>
<p>Too busy to look up the stats. I gotta study.</p>
<p>From personal experience, sooooo many ppl here are soooo stupid. heck, some ppl here studied so much for econ 101 and only got a B. You think most Michigan kids are of bright quality? You’re wrong.</p>
<p>Many instate kids are flat out ■■■■■■■■. Many OOS kids who applied early also aren’t too smart.</p>
<p>Number 1, I did not say the student bodies were identical, I said the difference is exaggerated. It is impossible to compare student bodies. But students who attended other universities AND Michigan seem to agree that there isn’t much of a difference. I am not biased, I just happen to have studied at Michigan and Cornell and can make a comparison. Have you studied at an Ivy League so that you may compare students at Michigan to students at other top universities? </p>
<p>The mean ACT at Brown and Cornell are 1 point higher than the mean ACT at Michigan. SAT scores are impossible to compare because Michigan does not supperscore, the private universities on the other hand do. Not many private universities publish a CDS (I onlytrust CDS figures), but those that do usually have similar ACT averages, with the most extreme cases being 2points above the Michigan mean.</p>
<p>I take offense to the suggestion I’m dumb if I couldn’t pull above a B in Econ 101. Not my fault I can’t do addition, lol >_<</p>
<p>hey number1, so did u beat 99% of the students in exams? im just curious :)</p>
<p>I want to second what hawkette said. It is common that companies do background checks nowadays. Leaving out details are fine but make sure the big items all match up correctly.</p>
<p>This happened some years ago so I don’t remember the details. The graduation date, college attendence date or something like that came up different on the background check and we recinded the job offer to a new hire.</p>