<p>Most sources would include these schools as the top publics: Berkeley, Michigan, Wisconsin, UNC, Texas, Virginia, UCLA, William and Mary.</p>
<p>To Emm: I went to Wisconsin and I had a great experience. Large schools allow you to take any subject under the sun and resources are excellent. Small schools will hold your hand more, though, if you need it. Student population at Wisconsin is quite diverse and the town is a fantastic place to spend four years. Madison is consistently rated at the top of mid-sized cities in which to live. The only college towns that compete may be Colorado (Boulder) and Texas, and I've been to dozens and dozens of campuses. Plus it's quite pretty, on an isthmus between two lakes, and it's wooded. UW is fairly liberal, which I much prefer--college is when you're supposed to be broadening your horizons, after all-- but it's large enough to accommodate any outlook. I don't know where else you've applied, but if you choose UW, I think you'll find it's a great place to spend four years. It's particularly good if you're in-state and you can take advantage of the huge financial bargain.</p>
<p>what about the college of new jersey?</p>
<p>I plan on attending a top public next year. When I look at the rankings, I see a bunch of numbers from millions of categories that are used to calculate the rankings. School separated 5 spots (like No. 12 could practically be the same as No. 8) could all have almost the same scores. Here's the breakdown:</p>
<p>No. 1: UCB
No. 2-5: UVA, UCLA, UMich, UNC
No. 6-9: W&M, UCSD, UW-Madison, GA Tech
No. 10-15: UCI, UIUC, UCSB, U Wash, UCD, PSU</p>
<p>My opinion: Berkeley, Michigan, Virginia, UCLA, UNC, Texas, Georgia, Maryland, etc.</p>
<p>I agree with emm and batman. Personally, I think people just haven't taken the time to do their research, but whatever, graduate schools and employers know the quality of Madison so I suppose that is what matters. As for the Michigan example, I agree. Both schools have top programs across the board, some better than others (ie: communications @ Madison or business @ Michigan) and very similiar student bodies. Peer institutions for sure.</p>
<p>I also think it is really hard for people on this board to honestly call some of these schools "better" than others. Many of these schools have programs the others don't, and have top regional (and national) reputations. I think it is better to rank in tiers. When people say, "there is no way x is better than y," it really simplifies the issue too much. Therefore, what batman has said is correct. The honest difference between some of those schools ranked within 5 of each other is not substancial.</p>
<p>Thank you Transfer. One other thing I might suggest (seeing as it is what I decided to do...) is shoot for as many different brackets that interest you. I'm a CA resident and don't really want to leave, so I applied to:</p>
<p>No. 1: UCB
No. 2-5: UCLA
No. 6-9: UCSD
No. 10-15: UCSB, UCD, U Wash
Safties: SFSU, U Oregon</p>
<p>People would have a lot more options that were great fits for them if they just took the time to look around.</p>
<p>I don't know how those who are posting manage to differentiate schools like Virginia from Berkeley, or Washington from UNC. Few of us have been to all these schools, let alone can offer a real ranking between them. </p>
<p>And as alluded to by others, if you're this close to making a decision on a college, instead of simply labeling school "A" as arbitrariliy "better" than school "B", consider what you're studying. If you're going to be an English major, does that change a schools ranking compared to if you're a biology or engineering major? I was a Zoology major in undergrad. A lot of schools don't even offer this major. </p>
<p>I'd also strongly consider costs. If you're living in Pennsylvania, does it really make sense to pay out-of-state tuition to attend Virginia or Georgia Tech instead of Penn State based on some survey somewhere?</p>
<p>The truth is, you can get an excellent education at any of the top 100 schools. The institution doesnt matter nearly as much as the students motivation level.</p>
<p>The other issue when you consider rankings is what measures are used to rank a school. Selectivity? Courses offered? Libraries? Teachers? These may be important, but how do you measure this? And do these things matter to everyone in the same way? </p>
<p>When you base a lot of a rank on selectivity / admission rate (as US News emphasizes), I think you really miss something. The mandate of large public school systems like in California, Florida, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Michigan is to educate as many people as possible. It's not to keep people out in order to maintain prestige of the institution. </p>
<p>Being very selective may measure the average quality of the entering student, but not necessarily the quality of the education offered. For instance, few private schools can offer the breadth of course work that a large, publicly-funded public school offers. How many private schools, for example, offer courses, let along majors, in subjects like limnology or Urdu? To me, that may matter greatly. To you, it may not matter at all that these courses are offered. </p>
<p>If you consider libraries, how many private schools have 20 or more libraries with literally millions of titles? I may think thats important, but will that matter to an undermotivated student only interested in learning the required text book? </p>
<p>How many private liberal arts colleges have professors actively engaged in research? How many have Nobel prize winners or members of the National Academy of Sciences on their staff? On the other hand, does this matter if students dont get to engage these professors until grad school?</p>
<p>Does a private liberal arts school have an electron microscope? It's a great tool, to be sure, so maybe a school will get extra points for that. But does this really matter if youre studying communications or Spanish?</p>
<p>The bottom line is that rankings are frequently arbitrary. They may not measure whats important to you. And they are all biased in one way or another. </p>
<p>Another point I'd like to mention is that when you rely so much on arbitrary rankings published in a magazine, I think you reframe the discussion as though education is something that happens passively to you. I went to school A, so I had a better education than some other person who went to school B. </p>
<p>I have met some very bright, very motivated, very accomplished people who went to schools frequently perceived as lesser, and a lot of underachievers who went to top tier schools. </p>
<p>You can get an excellent education at any of the top 100 schools. The truth is, the institution doesnt matter nearly as much as the students motivation level.</p>
<p>I finished my undergrad education over 20 years ago now, but Ill offer this advice to those of you trying to decide where to go. If I were going to school today, this is what I would value (not necessarily in this order) when assessing where to go: </p>
<p>1) Perception of the school: Harvard or Yale or Princeton may or may not offer a better education than Virginia or Ohio State, but the perception in the real world is that they're better. If I got into a top school, I think I'd strongly consider going just for this reason alone. But outside of this small group at the top, Im not sure theres that much difference in perception of employers when you look at a candidate from a Virginia versus a Michigan, or a Florida versus a Washington. I will say, however, that people in the northeast seem to weigh private schools much more heavily over public schools than do people in the Midwest or West.<br>
2) Major: If I were certain of my major, Id also weigh the strength of that program at various schools. For instance, Harvard may be better than Colorado State or Nebraska in most rankings, but is it really better if I want to study mining or agriculture?
3) Cost: Top Ivies aside, Im not sure its really worth the cost of going to a private school over a top public school. Is Duke or Wake Forest really worth the extra cost over a UNC (for an in-state student)? If I lived in Michigan, would it really be worth moving to Austin and paying out-of-state tuition if I got into Michigan or Michigan State? It may be better to save the extra money for grad school.<br>
4) Size: All things being equal, Id much prefer going to a larger school over a smaller school. Resources tend to be better, the courses offered are typically much more diverse, and the student populations are typically less homogenous. If I were very shy and werent self-motivated, however, I would likely aim for a smaller school that may offer more student assistance.<br>
5) Environment: When I was going to school, my father told me that more than half of what you learn in school isnt found in classes or in your booksits what you find in living on your own, in your environment. Looking back, I know he was right, and I would weigh the quality of life as an important part of my college experience. For instance, Yale is a great school. New Haven, however, isnt so hot. Columbia is a great school. The neighborhood in New York, however, can be a little diceyespecially where a student might be able to afford to live. While I wouldnt choose a school for this reason alone, there are some schools in particularly good college towns, which really helps you enjoy your college experience more. The top public school towns Ive seen are (in no particular order) Austin, Chapel Hill, Boulder, and Madison, though Im sure there are many others.<br>
6) Diversity and outlook: I would tend to pick a school that may be a little outside my comfort zone in terms of philosophy or student diversity. In my first two years in the dorms at Wisconsin-Madison, I developed friendships with people from Italy, Pakistan, Libya, Belorussia, Jordan, Iran, Taiwan, Puerto Rico, Nigeria, and many states. There is value in student and intellectual diversity to me, which I feel broadens you.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Is Duke or Wake Forest really worth the extra cost over a UNC (for an in-state student)?
[/quote]
Larger private schools have endowments that allow them to meet the need of their students; public schools cannot always match this. I applied to Duke, Wake Forest, and UNC Chapel Hill. Of the three, UNC was actually the most expensive, giving me a $6000 merit scholarship but leaving me to pay the other $6000. Wake Forest gave me a very comfortable merit aid package that would have allowed me to graduate without debt. Duke was in-between, and I'll graduate about $6000 in debt. My point (yes, I do have one :)) is that financial aid is often a VERY important factor favoring the more selective (and rich) schools. Princeton, for example, doesn't even include loans as part of the financial aid package. </p>
<p>Of course, if you're paying full cost at the above, or you don't get merit $, publics are the way to go.</p>
<p>in response to warblersrule86:</p>
<p>i definitely agree with you on this point and think that WAYYYY too many people overlook it. I''ve just been accepted to a small liberal arts school in CA (Claremont McKenna)....when everyone hears this, they think, "Jeez, isn't that ridiculously expensive?" I was also accepted to UW-Madison as state resident. Many think I'm stupid for passing up Madison because it's a better value, but in truth...after all the financial aid stuff came in...the CA school was cheaper then going to Madison. </p>
<p>The endowment at CMC is $1.2 billion for a little less than 1200 students. They have money coming out of their ears. </p>
<p>My point is that people should not overlook private schools because they think that they'll cost too much! </p>
<p>Last little point...the average calculated costs are calculated differently for public and private schools. The price tag for a public school is the lowest possible price that the school can legally say is their cost. There are all kinds of extra things that aren't included in this...that a student will end up paying anyway. Example...often the health fee (a couple hundred bucks) is not included, but chances are, a student would need to pay this anyway. At private schools, things like travel expenses or that random health fee or the meal plan are all included in that HUGE price tag.</p>