This article was in the SF Chronicle recently. Seems a propos. Apologies if there is a paywall for the article. It can be worked around http://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/article/Unmet-mental-health-needs-can-mar-college-7674340.php
Thank you for the caring words about the kid, I think what most people missed is the “now” was more than a year ago, the kid has been under the care of a professional for more than a year., Therefore the condition of the kid’s mental health is not the question here and it is certainly not a concern of those who are licensed to care for her.
One of the accommodations that the school provided recently is extended time, and with the extended time, the kid’s grades went to mainly As from Cs and Ds (I am familiar with extended time for SLD kids, where they did not use the time, as my kid was classified and I had told her that she didn’t know the material, but it is not the case with this kid here)…
Hence, the question is on what to do with the 2 Ds or 1D and 1C the kid is about to get. Parent has brought up the possibility of expunging the grades before the accommodation was provided, the Principal refused as those were grades obtained before the 504 plan. Hence I am interested to know what other schools do when they have this kind situation.
While I agree that the most important thing by far is the child’s mental health, I think that if a decision has been made to keep this child in school, it should be made in a way that that experience is helpful and successful. (I do not discount that it may be better to homeschool this student, consider a transfer or even take a medical leave from school, if permitted.) Once a student is dropping down to D grades, it could be argued that the student is not being successful and I would do some reasearch and call a 504 meeting.
“Her issue is homework completion. I expect that the teacher and school administration would not consider modifying homework itself or allowing her to take longer to do it would be considered giving your daughter an unfair advantage relative to other students in her AP classes. Personally, I would not reduce her homework of due dates. She doesn’t need to be burdened with an extended time line that could well cause anxiety and additional stress. My experience with incomplete grades and extended due dates is kids often don’t get the work done, but have additional time to worry about dated, but pending assignments. Who needs to carry that extra rock.”
I couldn’t disagree more with this statement but it is an opinion I often saw shared by teachers and counselors in my kids’ schools. This is a student who has a psychiatrist recommending reduced and/or modified homework but I often saw teachers with less training and less personal information on the student make such sweeping statements because of their own internal biases (“could well cause anxiety and additional stress”) regardless of the fact that the psychiatrist is presumably saying that in this case, for this kid, it would reduce anxiety to decrease or modify homework.
OP, if the psychiatrist says the child needs modified or reduced homework-- which seems perfectly reasonable-- then that is what you should try to get for your child but there may be more than one way to skin a cat. Google twice exceptional students (gifted students with special needs) and contact a mental health advocacy groups to see what success and tactics they have used in your school. Also, talk to the psychiatrist about what the student needs and try to find a supportive voice in the school system to give you guidance. Talk to each teacher individually; you may find a few teachers willing to be flexible despite not being required to be flexible.
Also, consider different ways to reduce your child’s workload and get the support your child needs. For example, the school may agree to allow your child to spend one or even two period(s) a day in "study hall’ or something similar to complete work. (In that way, your child would have 1-2 fewer academic classes and an extra hour a day to complete work.) You could look into having your child leave school 1-2 periods early, perhaps doing volunteer work or just going home; that would reduce workload. If that doesn’t work, perhaps your child could take a few classes each semester that don’t normally involve homework: p.e., art (although there are projects), internship, a vocational class, tv studio, etc. We have a program in our school where students become EMTs and that takes up several hours a day. I realize that your child is gifted and taking AP classes as a 10th grader but practical and arts classes can help a person find balance sometimes.
Be aware that many times, when you call a 504 meeting, the non-parent members of the committee have already met and decided what they will agree on. In other words, you as a parent are often walking into a situation where they have already made the decisions beforehand. In light of this, it is helpful to talk to some of the key players first. Ask who will be at the meeting (if you don’t already know) and try to speak to some of them ahead of time. I would explain to them how your child needs to decrease work load and explore ways to do that such as the ones I mentioned. If they suggest going down from AP classes to regular classes, explain that often regular classes have just as much or more homework production than harder classes and also explain that the psychiatrists feel your child should remain in those classes. Then see if any of the ways to reduce workload are more palatable and try to pursue that.
As far as the actual 504 meeting, because it involves a mental health issue, I would ask to include the school nurse. Be sure to bring written paperwork on the side-effects of any medication your child is taking as this could affect performance.
Is there grade remediation for D’s and F’s? If so, use the summer to retake.
@2collegewego Thank you on your comment …
“I couldn’t disagree more with this statement but it is an opinion I often saw shared by teachers and counselors in my kids’ schools. This is a student who has a psychiatrist recommending reduced and/or modified homework but I often saw teachers with less training and less personal information on the student make such sweeping statements because of their own internal biases (“could well cause anxiety and additional stress”) regardless of the fact that the psychiatrist is presumably saying that in this case, for this kid, it would reduce anxiety to decrease or modify homework.”
that’s exactly my point…The following is also true…
“If they suggest going down from AP classes to regular classes, explain that often regular classes have just as much or more homework production than harder classes and also explain that the psychiatrists feel your child should remain in those classes.” -
They didn’t suggest to go from AP to regular, but there was a discussion with the kid on going to regular before the 504 plan and the kid knew that she would have the same problem…and it was too late to go to regular at that time.
Many things have been tried to work with the school and all were refused…for next year, the kid may take a reduce work…
I really think that you need an advocate or lawyer to advise. Many kids taking AP or honors classes receive accommodations: the whole point is to enable students to perform at the level they are capable of.
If a psychiatrist recommended reduced or modified homework, that should have been part of a 504 plan from the start. I don’t think the school has followed the ADA very well. A lawyer specializing in educational issues could come up with some creative ideas for handling all this.
For the price of one hour with a lawyer, you may get some solutions. Some organizations also have low-priced advocates. Either way, go with someone with a lot of experience with mental health issues and schools.
It may also be possible to withdraw from the semester and have grades expunged- or was that a year ago?
I think the parents have not had sufficient advice and may be victimized by the school in this case. Not saying the principal is a bad guy or anything, but he or she may need some, er, consciousness-raising.
By the way schools these days really react on the issue of suicidality. There are a lot of worries about liability. Some schools have established special programs where kids who are having troubles like this can check in, hang out, and at the same time get some modifications of academics until they feel better.
I wish this poster’s school was more enlightened.
Annamom, In my school district, it is often very hard to get a final grade changed. It does look like some school systems allow a class to be repeated and the grade replaced-- that would be ideal. Some schools have extra credit opportunities but I would stay clear if it’s additional busy work since that’s the last thing this child needs.
Other than that, I would suggest you look at the break down on the grades. Would the teachers or principal agree to weigh the final quarter(s) with accommodations more than the previous ones? Was there any specific paper/ project that was penalized for lateness where, if undone, that could make a difference? Perhaps the teacher or an administrator would agree to remove that lateness penalty. By the way, I would start with the teacher and then move up the chain. For what it’s worth, there are people in the school district above the principal, both at the administrative level and there should also be a 504 coordinator at the school district and state level.
I think that if you hadn’t held a 504 meeting yet, then you have to try to win this with honey. If you held a meeting, they refused the accommodation, then she bombed and then they instituted them, you can argue that they were wrong the first time by denying her the accommodation.
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/504faq.html
And, as much as I understand fighting for the grade change, I also want to give you some reassurance. One of my kids attended a very top school with a C or D on the transcript in a core class. The kid went into the final with a B but very sick. Ended up taking the final, bombing it and then being hospitalized the next day. Kid explained it in the ‘additional information’ section of the application.
I also want to tell you that two of my kids had very, very good friends who were gifted and had serious mental health problems in high school. Both of these kids ended up attending colleges that were not as stressful for them. One-- an absolutely brilliant student-- chose a supportive, top liberal arts college instead of the high-pressure engineering/ science path that student was originally on. The other student-- a straight-A, all honors/ AP quiet student-- chose the very good state flagship instead of aiming for a more rigorous place. So, in the long run, this one semester is just be a blip but your kid will face the same challenges a few years down the line. She not get less homework in college and may find that taking fewer classes and graduating in 5 years, or attending a college that is not as challenging, or attending a college that focuses less on grades or living at home is a better option. I would urge you to do what you can behind the scenes but, to your child, try to downplay the effect of one semester.
@compmom the Principal refused the reduced and modified homework according to her she could not do it with a 504 plan,
@2collegewego Her overall final grade will be a D or 2 Ds, which would make it very difficult to pull up the over grade.Parent asked for a scribe pen and it was refused because, according to the Principal, notes taking is an important skill, despite the fact that some colleges allow the use of scribe pen…
@twoinanddone if the kid were to retake the course, will the old grade show up in the transcript?
I don’t understand the principal’s position and wonder if it is legal. In fact, this principal seems to be making things up as he goes along, so that the school’s needs are taken care of, not our daughter’s. I strongly advise, again, an advocate who is very experienced, or a lawyer.
I agree with others that it would be good not to let the stress of any advocacy spill over onto your daughter, but it is also important to make sure there is some justice for her, and she will appreciate that.
@annamom wrote: “…I think what most people missed is the “now” was more than a year ago, the kid has been under the care of a professional for more than a year., Therefore the condition of the kid’s mental health is not the question here and it is certainly not a concern of those who are licensed to care for her.”
As a parent who has dealt with similar issues, the fact that a formally successful student is struggling to this extent would be reason for continued concern for her mental health. While the child may no longer be having or expressing suicidal thoughts, she hasn’t returned to her previous level of school performance. My personal take would be to focus less on the grades and the transcript and more on resolving the underlying depression/anxiety/other illness that is making school so difficult for the child. Accommodations are wonderful, but they don’t resolve the underlying issue. When my child was in this position, we made several changes. We changed psychiatrists. We changed medications and doses. We pulled our child out of school. It took several years to find the right combination of doctors/therapists/medications AND appropriate educational setting to allow my child to gain traction and recover fully. A year may seem like a long time, but healing from depression and other mental illnesses is a marathon.
We also took a child out. Taking the child out of school, GED, and other alternatve paths are not inconsistent with dealing with the school’s handling of the past, retroactively, though.
I agree with all those that have written in so far. As a parent, you may want to consider why you are focused on your daughter’s grades when she is clearly in trouble from a psychological standpoint. Whether or not she is in therapy, she is still in trouble from a psychological standpoint. A change may be in order.
While considering why you are focused on grades, it might be helpful to consider what might be remedied if she were to have straight A’s right now and what would be the consequences if she continues to have D’s. I bet you are thinking that If she gets her grades up to the A level, she will have more options for college-especially the high prestige highly competitive colleges. Perhaps; but do you think that is a good place for her to be? She is not handing her work in now, a clear message to you that she has other more important things to deal with than handing in her homework. What would happen if she were at a college along with the very top students in the country? And what if she continues to get D’s. She may have to go to a college that is not competitive or, if finances are an issue, she will have to go to a community college first. Well from a psychological standpoint, that would probably be better for her. She could re-establish herself as a strong student under the watchful eyes of her parents while remaining in a community where she has supports. Not a bad thing at all.
I hope things improve for your daughter.
Agree that it would be helpful to get an attorney who specializes in this field. There is a big difference between the school saying they can’t , for example, shorten a 3 hr AP lab to 2 (reasonable) vs saying she can’t use a scribe pen because “note taking is important”. That’s ridiculous.
“if the kid were to retake the course, will the old grade show up in the transcript?”
Depends on school rules. But you can find a solution, whatever it is, once she is well.
@Hanna thanks
@jym626 parent is planning not to get an attorney at this point, but to see what option is available so as to bring to the school.
I think it is common with retaking a class that the old grade does still appear on the transcript but is not in the gpa. Of course the school or district can set any conditions it wants.
Schools suddenly become very cooperative when a lawyer is even mentioned. It can cost $200 to spend an hour with an attorney, and they often have great solutions that you then know are reasonable to ask. Until some sort of backup is available for the parent, a lawyer or advocate, I think the school will just do what they want. Last post on this- beating a dead horse.
If you’re not going to get an attorney with expertise in this area, at the very least you should consider getting an advocate. There are specialists in this field as well who can help you navigate advocating for your child’s education. There was actually a book written on this with this exact title but it’s probably out of date by now
To be honest, your child’s school sounds like a mini-nightmare to parents and students with mental health or learning issues. That was how my local public elementary school was. I was in awe of parents who managed to get what their children needed to succeed because it often required near Herculean effort. School administration tried to get away with the least amount of work possible and parents had to push to get proper accommodations specific to their child. I second the advice to get either an education advocate who may be a lawyer or psychologist and have this person attend meetings with you. We did not do this and I wish we had. I honestly believe it would have made a difference. (we bailed and put our daughter back in her private Montessori school which went through 8th grade)
Good luck to you and your daughter.
I do not know your school district. My kids attended a very rich school district with multiple, full time lawyers on staff. If a parent takes an attorney to a meeting, the school system becomes VERY adversarial and will fight the parents all the way. I say this because the common wisdom is to say, “take a lawyer; the school will back down,” but that is more likely to happen in a smaller or poorer school district. If you have the money for an advocate or an attorney, now is the time to look into it. I disagree with the people suggesting you take this up in the future because the people who remember the details will no longer be there.