What to do when you think your son is truly not ready for college?

Parents Forum
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<p>ctmom, I am so sorry to hear that things are still not going well. But I think that it is important, even in the midst of the current crisis, to pause and acknowledge that you took action and got him off the video games. Both you and your son deserve a great deal of credit for that. </p>

<p>You have some very good advice here, much of it conflicting. It will be up to you to decide whether he needs to go to the outdoor program, to be kept home for a year, to work for the summer, and/or to be sent off to college in the fall. I agree with several posters, though, that whatever you do, you and your husband make it clear to your son that life as usual is coming to an end, and you will continue to provide things (home, car, college, etc.) only if he meets defined expectations. I second the idea to find someone to work with you and your husband to help you function as a team.</p>

<p>I will be following this thread with interest, and keeping you in my thoughts. Some kids are so difficult (mine among them) that heroic parenting is called for! (I am borrowing a phrase from a dentist I saw years ago, who told me that I would need "heroic dentistry." I thought that, as the one enduring the dental work, I, and not he, deserved the "hero" designation!)</p>

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<p>jaybee, that quote was meant for me! Thank you for posting it.</p>

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<p>not sying this is "right" or healthy or anything.....some cc kids</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/high-school-life/536910-how-often-do-you-have-days-where-you-do-absolutely-nothing.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/high-school-life/536910-how-often-do-you-have-days-where-you-do-absolutely-nothing.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>P.S. I am SOOOO greatful my D got a job this summer. Her first, and a VERY close call that we all have mixed feelings about. On the one hand, it will reqire her to be away for her last summer with us, OTOH, it would drive me CRAZY to see her doing "absolutely nothing".</p>

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<p>Thanks for all of your well meaning advice, kind words and genuine concern, you have no idea how uplifting it is when I am feeling really down and doubting myself. This is a very very intelligent boy, who has proven over and over how successful he can be and he alone is in charge of deciding how successful he wants to become. Though he is still in this rut I have spoken about, I am still confident that he will come out of it, he has tremendous potential, he is highly intelligent, athletic, exceptionally good looking( I am not bragging and he does not get those looks from me :) ), I know by his own confession, he doesn't like the situation he is in right now, he doesn't feel good about himself at this point.
For those of you asking-yes, he was fired (at my insistence) so now he has a new job lined up with another relative starting on Monday so let's see what happens.
I know the outward bound type program I found would be perfect and liberating for him but in his mind he has it pegged as some kind of wilderness army camp and is completely against it and ironically its quite the opposite....so at this point if he can start working, that may lead to other things, opening his eyes, new relationships with new people,etc...at least he will be out there and living life again..that is all I want to see.
It is so sad to see someone who has way more potential than your average kid and not using any of it or taking advantage of the many opportunities that await him.
Every night he goes to bed saying I know what needs to get done, I will do it, I will make you proud. And I do think there is actually a good chance that may happen.
The day I wrote the original post was a rough day....today was a brighter day. As the "new me" stays strong and continues to stand my ground with the restrictions, (i.e. no car, keys, internet, money until you have started working and contributing around here) believe me its starting to pay off. He sees I mean business, is now bored out of his mind and suddenly it seems work on Monday doesn't seem so bad. Of course this coupled with my husband needing to be on board (which for the last week he has been) I do see that we indeed may not be far from turning that highly anticipated corner.
So I will keep you posted on how this develops, I am taking it one day at a time, the only thing different this time around is my strong resolve which is intact and armoring me from falling prey to promises and false hopes. I love him dearly and will always be there for him but am at the same time starting to see the redeeming qualities of "the skinned knee" and allowing him to fall, get back up and learn a life lesson, something that up until recently I have not been able to do. Thank you once and again for your support, which makes me just a little bit stronger every time I read a post. It is very empowering.
Also to clarify, we do NOT want to nor do we plan to withhold college from him, we want desperately to give him this chance that he has worked hard for, we just want to make sure he is ready to deal with all that will come his way and that he has the experiences of having responsibilities and independence to carry him forward. I know it is natural especially for parents of boys to wonder outloud if they are really ready to be on their own, many 18 year olds are very immature.........and many more do step up to the plate and "get the job done." I have seen with my own eyes through friends kids and relatives kids the amazing turnarounds some of these kids (mostly boys) have made when they have no choice but to rise to the occasion. Boys whose parents never thought they could wake up on time to make it to an 11 class or boys whose parents were stunned to know their sons were managing, classes, social lives and organized themselves enough to even be involved in outside of the class activities. With luck we will be one of those parents.........I am crossing my fingers.</p>

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<p>I want to give a thread of hope. My S is 25 yrs old is back in college. He failed his first year straight out of hs...thank God it was a cc, not a financial disaster!<br>
Anyway, we had had real struggles in hs, almost killed us as parents. He is now getting mostly A's and some B's and is in the process of being able to expunge the grades from 7 years ago. He is excited about school works hard and is so focused and happy.</p>

<p>My S was not a behavior problem, but had some emotional issues due to a LD. He was often referrd to as lazy. I take great issue when kids are labeled lazy. No one sits around for no reason. I would definitely look at family counseling so that whatever you decide, everyone is on the same plate. If S or DH refuse to go, you go anyway!</p>

<p>I also feel a break from each other may help give everyone new perspectives. Therefore I agree with posts that say let him go to college, sink or swim as long as it isn't a huge financial burden. Counseling and education are better spent money than a month in Utah, a false reality.</p>

<p>I have always been frank with my kids and then let them forge their own paths. "here it is kid.... in my experience...if you ... then this will probably be the out come, but if you .... then you will have a better outcome. And then let them go... the best safety net is not money or working the system for them, but rather unconditional love that says well you fell you screwed up , but i still love you, brush them off and point them in the right direction yet again. Sometimes it take a lot of new starts, but eventually they work it out as long as they know you are ther to love them through it.</p>

<p>So tell him what is involved in "flying" sit him on the edge of the nest and gently push! You'd be surprised how well they fly when they are among peers who are flapping their wings just as hard to keep afloat. </p>

<p>Counseling, frank talking (no threats) and off to college.</p>

<p>One poster said something that struck home with me aobut how kids don't always follow the path we dream of, but as they find their way, celebrate the path they choose.</p>

<p>Good luck and hang in there!</p>

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<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/536821-quick-poll-yes-no.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/536821-quick-poll-yes-no.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Here's a link that lists how some of the teenage kids of CCer's spend their summers. </p>

<p>We're crossing our fingers and hope things turn around for you and your son. Stay strong.</p>

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<p>Addictive behavior does not change without hitting rock bottom. "Therapy" is worthless without the patient wanting to change, and the outcome is likely to be a temporary appearance of improvement followed by a relapse. Note that "addictive behavior" is used in the general sense of the word, from serious life-threatening issues to much less serious stuff like non-routine pot and alcohol use, systemic lying, etc. Been there myself, currently going through it with someone close. </p>

<p>Keeping S at home for a year will likely breed resentment. However, sending him off without a "contract" and consequences that you are willing to follow through on is a bad idea. Two possibilities are to have an agreement that certain academic and behavioral benchmarks must be me, the other is to pull him from dream school and send him to a good state U, with the understanding that if he meets the benchmarks he can transfer. Being close to home but not at home will allow you to better monitor his behavior and intervene earlier than if he is at the other end of the country and the first time you hear about problems is when a disciplinary hearing is launched by the school. The latter will require a serious discussion with the admissions office of "dream school". If he was a desirable candidate and you explain the situation, chances are that they will allow him to transfer a year later without .</p>

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<p>My S is similar, tho he's never done drugs. He's really a good kid, as are his friends, but he is <em>hugely</em> unmotivated. His therapist told me it would be best to let him go away to college. Staying home won't change anything, he said.</p>

<p>The boy will be attending a mid-tier in-state this fall (tho he wanted a specifiic OOS), and has agreed to bring <em>no</em> video games with him. We told him he can transfer to his OOS if he does well, but frankly, I don't expect it. He needs a <em>lot</em> of structure to succeed, and I believe he would do very well in the military, but that's something he would have to decide for himself.</p>

<p>OP, I haven't seen your other posts, but I really do feel for you and hope everything turns out well. Good luck to you and your son.</p>

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<p>Thanks. I have to reiterate that we ARE planning on sending him, have outlined the "rules" and guidelines that he must follow in order to stay, he will have to work hard, step up to the plate and get his butt in gear. If not he knows that after Christmas, if there is non compliance, he can go to a CC in our home state but live on campus. I personally really don't think it will come to this but my biggest concern is taking advantage of the remaining 6 weeks for him to grow up, learn about responsibility and become a bit more independent. A job is surely one way to learn all the above.....so I truly hope he is sincere when he says he will start working at the nursery on Monday, I think frankly he is bored to tears, no car, no money, no internet.....he is suffering this weekend, not knowing what to do with himself and secretly I have a little smirk on my face (just because I know it is working and that he is perhaps, hopefully getting the picture)
Someone said something about hitting rock bottom....TRUST ME WE HAVE!! I dont' go into every little detail on this board but suffice to say there is likely no more bottom left, from this point on it has to point upwards.
I do believe that if he starts and stays with this job, that will be the turning point he so desperately needs.
To the poster who thinks the program in Utah offers false hope, I really beg to differ. One of my best friends sons did their 60 day program, and is a new person, its been almost 4 years, he is completing law school and is highly successful and motivated and my boss's son did the same program, and again it was a hugely important changing point in his life...........so having known two people that I am very close to and whose stories I know well I think is quite a testament to the program but the bottom line is my s. doesn't want to do it so its a mute point.
I do agree that nothing will happen until HE is ready to want to change, I think that time AFTER ONE LONG LONG YEAR is finally, slowly but surely happening, I look to the future with cautious optimism.</p>

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<p>ctmom, no suggestions here, but hugs to you. You sound like a great, caring, concerned mom. Have faith and listen to your inner strength.</p>

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<p>Beside the point, I know, but this information helps me put the kids I see in perspective. And just to be clear, I think working is good, but not working doesn't equal depression.</p>

<p>Trends in Youth Employment:
Data from the Current
Population Survey</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bls.gov/opub/rylf/pdf/chapter4.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bls.gov/opub/rylf/pdf/chapter4.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The Relationship of Youth
Employment to Future Educational
Attainment and Labor Market Experience</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bls.gov/opub/rylf/pdf/chapter7.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bls.gov/opub/rylf/pdf/chapter7.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Unbelievable that you searched the internet to try to find a study that matches your beliefs. The study is old and outdated. It's fine to disagree with the notion that so many teenagers are indeed spending their summers working. The discussion had nothing to do with suggesting that teenagers work during the school year (as noted in the outdated link). As I said, in my experience and as it relates to the area in which I live, it is commonplace for the majority of teenagers to spend their summers working and making money. Most work part-time, some full-time, and others work 2 part-time jobs. For the few not working, it's either because they weren't able to find a job that fit them or they chose not to work.</p>

<p>ctmomof3--you sound much stronger and more confident today. Wonderful. Stay strong and never lose hope. Kids change so much from year to year. Sometimes we as parents need to change too.</p>

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<p>I just searched for some data. That's all I asked in the beginning. I didn't have any "beliefs". I simply asked how to define "normal". I guess I just don't have the conviction of my beliefs that you do.</p>

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<p>I used the work "typical". I said nothing about normal or abnormal. I may have used the term "norm" at one point in regards to "it's the norm here for most teenagers to work".</p>

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<p>Your right, you said typical. I am not saying you are wrong; I am only sharing my surprise. I also wanted to do my homework, before I shared this with others.</p>

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<p>Ctmom, first of all, I want to say that you sound like a good parent with legitimate concerns about your son, and it also sounds like you are on the right track.</p>

<p>However, there are some things that you have said that make me think that you are looking for an overly simple solution:
[quote]
... my biggest concern is taking advantage of the remaining 6 weeks for him to grow up, learn about responsibility and become a bit more independent. A job is surely one way to learn all the above ...</p>

<p>I do believe that if he starts and stays with this job, that will be the turning point he so desperately needs....</p>

<p>To the poster who thinks the program in Utah offers false hope, I really beg to differ. One of my best friends sons did their 60 day program, and is a new person ....

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Growing up is a process - it is not something that happens overnight. A job or a wilderness program can be the catalyst that leads to radical change for one person.... but the same job or program may have a different impact on someone else. As much as the Utah program helped your friend's kids, I am sure there are other kids who were poor fits and were miserable while there -- just the same as you will find here on CC that some kids are unhappy and desparate to transfer from colleges that other kids adore. </p>

<p>My son, who did go off to college before he had the maturity to handle it, did change his ways with a job that excited his passions at age 20. But he had several jobs in high school and college where it seemed to me that his goal was to get away with doing as little work as possible while there -- he really had to find the right job to make it work. And I have a very hard working and mature daughter who pretty much has used her paying jobs as a way of determining, in serial fashion, what sort of things she does not want to do in her life. (Data entry? Nope. Retail? Nope. Bartending? Nope.) She's high energy, serious, a good worker -- but she hated all those jobs and probably won't find satisfaction in working until she qualifies for the type of job that challenges her intellect and creativity. </p>

<p>It is good for you to encourage your son to work,, but a mistake to expect to see big short term changes. </p>

<p>Similarly, I can tell you from experience that it is very important to set clear boundaries and limits for continued financial support before sending the kid off to college -- but once you do that, you have to let go, and let your son experience the natural consequences of his own actions and decisions. </p>

<p>That includes allowing him to screw up... and forgiving him the screw ups as well. "Forgive" doesn't mean come to the rescue -- I just mean that while my son was working and supporting himself from ages 20-23, I never, ever brought up the issue of the college classes he had blown off during his first 2 years of college -- I let my son make his mistakes, I didn't try to fix them, and I didn't give him a bad time over it. </p>

<p>I think that once our kids are grown, we parents have to stop trying to change them -- they are who they are. At the same time, I think it is only when we pull back and get out of the way that they really have the opportunity to grow and change. So its ironic, but the more we try to control and manipulate by our suggestions and requests and demands, the more we also hamper the kid's own process of emotional growth.</p>

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<p>Sometimes...working means having money, money means having the ability to buy drugs and booze. It was true in my youth and it is true for many many kids at my kids school....not always, but make sure you watch even more carefully for the signs. I did have a troubled youth myself and I wish there was something that I could pin point as the cure...counseling and LOVE is all I can think of and neither offer a 6 week fix. Buy the book Boundries for your husband by the way.</p>

<p>Thoughts and Prayers!</p>

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<p>Ct Mom: Good luck. It is unbelievable what a change six months or a year can make with kids his age. Especially boys. Sometimes things just have to click. I was just at a funeral for a friend's 20 year old this week. She eulogized him, or rather, humanized him by standing up there reminding us (in a loving and funny way) that he was not an angel during his short time on this earth but that she wishes she would have worried less about him and just tried to have more fun. I am trying to take her advice to heart.</p>

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<p>Hi again, BELIEVE ME I fully am aware that NOTHING in this world can make a person change in 6 weeks, make no mistake! I was simply saying a job, this program, or some other POSITIVE CHANGE, could be THE TURNING POINT, the point which makes him open his eyes and realize there is so much out there for the taking, a point where he finally starts feeling productive, or good about himself, or sees other kids in his rut and starts opening up (something he is thus far not great at doing) when you see your child in such a rut, you are desperate for a change, and will do just about anything for one.
The program is not a sure thing....but what in life really is? Knowing my son as I do, and knowing his love for outdoors, I really liked the philosophy and mission statement of this particular program, do I think my son could do well there? Without a doubt, so much so that he sounds like the poster child for it. But its a mute point as he has no interest in going.
With regard to the job, if he should decide to follow through and start working, again this is a very positive change, it will no doubt make him at the end of a day feel good about himself, make him feel like he joining the rest of the world, and he will feel he has "earned" the right to go out, or do somthing fun.
Growing up IS a process...hey many 40 year olds are still doing it!:) I realize he is still very much evolving and is a late bloomer. It is funny because many people who know him well have always predicted he will be wildly successful, in my heart I think they could be right, it certainly will not be without some serious rollercoaster years for his parents, but I am trying to look at this whole convoluted year as growing pains and another stage in life. I am taking it one day at a time, the best thing so far is my own strength which I will say is surprising even me, it has included being a mother even to my husband, who keeps wanting to give in, I have to "reprimand" him and tell him the limits!! But as said my resolve is very strong and I am not backing down and believe me your words of hope continue to renew my faith and strenghten me.
Bessie, I so agree at how fast kids can change..........I appreciate the message your friend shared, though it is tragic that she had to learn that when her son was so young. I will keep you all posted as to what happens tomorrow morning. Thanks!</p>

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<p>Ok, I don't want to be a wet blanket, but I was thinking about your situation last night because something about it keeps bothering me and I realized finally what it was. You have said your son was "addicted" to Warcraft, correct? He used it, I take it, to escape from reality, pressures, demands, etc. to the extent that it became an addiction.</p>

<p>In that case, why do you and your husband appear to be so cavalier about his pot use? To me the idea that he's switched off from gaming to "occasional" pot use is a red flag. Do you really know how often he's using it? Where is he getting it? Do his friends use it? Where has he gotten the money to buy it? </p>

<p>When he gets to college it will be even easier to get blotto every single day if he chooses, and I assume he'll also be able to go back to his gaming. You will have absolutely no idea what is going on, and you could have a kid who comes home at Thanksgiving or Christmas in worse shape than when he left. I know that's not your goal.</p>

<p>Have you thought about inquiring about whether the college can hold his spot for a year? I just think it's too risky to send him off with your fingers crossed, hoping for the best. Maybe this worked for others, but most of those others did not have addiction issues. </p>

<p>Maybe there's a relative he could live with while he works for a year since it seems to me that part of you kind of wants him gone for awhile, which is understandable, but to me not worth the risk.</p>

<p>Just my 2 cents. Do not mean to offend in any way, but I'm worried about substance abuse in his case.</p>