<p>Northstarmom -- I just wanted to thank you for your thoughtfulness and generosity on CC. I always learn something from your honest, well-written, and insightful posts.</p>
<p>this reminds me of a guy I knew who had a videogame/internet porn addiction. His parents got sick of it (both high-income M.D.'s) and sent him to an army camp for two months the summer before his senior year. He came back as if from hell, but was totally changed and is currently attending college and doing fine.</p>
<p>SOme people can drop the addiction with no repurcusions, while others might be what could be called a dry drunk. All the symptoms of the drinking are still there, the underlying reasons for the addiction in the first place, just not the actual activity, the anger, the lethargy, the other signs and behaviors are still affecting the persons life, thoughh they no longer actviely partake in the activity.</p>
<p>OP, just in case you think that your situation is rare, my experience has been that most families run into some kind of major concerns with at least one of their kids. The only reason most people don't realize this is that parents tend to lie about or otherwise hide it when their kids have problems.</p>
<p>Sooo when a kid messes up senior year in h.s. and gets their college merit aid or admission yanked, parents and the kid may tell some tall tale about how the college lied about financial aid or the kid suddenly decided to take a gap year or go to a local community college in order to pursue some local service project or other impressive sounding interest.</p>
<p>When a kid flunks out or gets kicked out of college, the kid and the parents tend not to tell the truth, but say that the kid decided to work for a while to figure out what major to pursue or the kid was so stressed with working so hard at college that the parents insisted that s/he take some time off.</p>
<p>Most of my friends are highly educated people whose parents also were college educated. They include doctors, lawyers, teachers, college professors and similar people. Many -- if not the majority -- have very bright offspring, and the parents were involved, caring parents. Still, virtually every adult friend who has an offspring who is at least 25 has had some major concerns with at least one of their kids. </p>
<p>For instance, one couple, both of which have been college professors, had a gifted son whom they were sure was applying to college. The parents had taken the young man to see a variety of colleges, the student had scored high on the SAT and also had solid grades. He told his parents he was applying to colleges, and listed the colleges he had applied to. April came with no college mail. It ended up the young man had lied to his parents. Had been playing video games, not applying to college.</p>
<p>After taking a gap year living at home, he did apply to college, got in, and last I heard was having a successful college experience majoring in Japanese!</p>
<p>Another friend's son, another gifted student, lost his merit aid while attending the local community college, a place where went due to subpar high school grades due to laziness. That same year, he managed to get charged with a felony for stupidly stealing something while he was drunk.</p>
<p>When I get together with college professor friends, several of us talk about our bright kids who virtually grew up on college campuses, but decided to flunk out, skip college or drop out because our kids decided that a college education isn't necessary in this world!</p>
<p>And -- when I went to an Ivy League college -- I had an acquaintance who was kicked out of school for attempting to steal a dorm sofa to put into his off campus apartment. Another acquaintance flunked out after getting straight "Fs" for two semesters.</p>
<p>I also have friends who include a recently retired college professor and doctorate-holding college instructor who wrote an award-winning fictional book who said that they spent much of their early 20s in a haze of pot and rock and roll, and therefore finished college far later than did most of their peers.</p>
<p>What I have seen is that many of the students whose behavior causes their parents to get gray hair will eventually straighten out and return to school and get their degrees or at least enter careers in which they can support themselves.</p>
<p>For instance, the guy who was kicked out of Harvard for theft eventually returned, got his degree, and now is a middle aged minister working with troubled youth. The guy who had to take time off after a year of straight Fs eventually got a law degree.</p>
<p>The young man who lost his scholarship and was charged with a felony (for something he really did do) managed to avoid prison, and is now working his way through college, getting decent grades while living at home.</p>
<p>So... there is plenty of hope for your S. From what I've seen, such students are more likely to straighten out their lives if they hit bottom -- feel the consequences of their own behavior. That typically happens when the parent bring the bottom up to them by not spending their hard earned money to send a student to college or to financially subsidize a person whose behavior indicates they are too immature, irresponsible, disinterested or lazy to be able to handle that situation.</p>
<p>It's easy for people in general to talk a good game about what they would like to do. However, actions speak louder than words. A person who can't get off their duff to behave responsibly while living in their parents' home isn't likely to change when they are away in college with all of the freedom and temptations that college offers.</p>
<p>Anyway, the point of this long post is that if you're hesitating about not sending your S to college this year because you fear what your neighbors and relatives will think, not to worry. Most people really don't care that much about others' lives. They have their own problems to cope with. Anyone who also looks down on you because your S is taking time off before going to college is likely to feel empathy for you at some point when they find their own kid getting sidetracked from some goal.</p>
<p>I got a call from a friend whose daughter was in school on the east coast, we are left-coasters. Anyway her daughter does not want to go back for her 3rd year- there are a few issues, etc.</p>
<p>I could sort of tell when the mom was telling me how her daughter didn't want to go back, and instaead wanted to attend CC for a year, work, etc., that she was a little embarrassed or worried about people's reaction.</p>
<p>I just told her that it was probablly a good thing!! Her daughter was looking at the class schedules, was working almost full time all summer, was already taking a class locally, and seemed to be so much happier.</p>
<p>Point is, as NSM says, is that do what is right for your family, and if he goes and it doesn't work out, it is not the end of the world. Just go into with clear expectations about what you hope for and what his part of the bargain is.</p>
<p>As for this summer, what is he doing? If he isn't working, then he should be volunteering, or interning, or something. Even if its replacing the gutters and screen on the house.</p>
<p>He says he wants to go, which is great, but he should be doing something to fill his days.</p>
<p>And not everyone is "college material"- whatever that means. Some of the happiest most successful people I know are in the trades.</p>
<p>Northstarmom : Thank you for taking the time to share your experience and perspective. My s is one of those taking a detour. He is going back to college this Sept. Time will tell if he will succeed ... or not. </p>
<p>I try to tell myself it's great if my kids do well in college, but I should be just thankful that they are healthy and around for me to love.</p>
<p>We are having serious thoughts about sending our son back to school this fall. He needed a 3.0 for his scholarship that he did not get. I think he has a 2.5 or something close to that. He should have gotten the 3.0. The classes were not hard. But he has ADD and did not make the effort to use the services the school offered. He is easily distracted and make the decision to not take any meds but didn't compensate by increasing his organizational skills. This kid is smart but in addition to his LD/add is lazy.
He has agreed to take out a student loan to cover the loss of the scholarship. He is able to get it back if he raises the gpa.
It is frustrating. I did not think my son had the maturity to go to school last year. I was proved right. It is really easy to get distracted if you don't have some discipline. Even if your son does not bring games to school with him he will have plenty of dormmates who have systems. He could easily fill his days and nights playing games.
With my son it is a hard call since his friends who are home are extremely unmotivated. He is also a kid who does not ask for much. He would be fine with a consequence of no money or car. He would find a way to get around. He is resourceful when he needs to be.
There are no easy answers. What I doubt will happen is that your son will change. My son had good intentions. He wanted to go to school, he wants to go back to school and says he will do better. What I need and you might consider asking your son to let you know what he is going to do differently once he gets to school then he is doing now.
I don't know what we will decide for our child. As for now he is working or going to school 7 days a week and not complaining.
No easy answers</p>
<p>"With my son it is a hard call since his friends who are home are extremely unmotivated. He is also a kid who does not ask for much. He would be fine with a consequence of no money or car. He would find a way to get around. He is resourceful when he needs to be."</p>
<p>We've told our sons since they were young that after they graduated from h.s., they'd be welcome to live at home if they were in college full time, in college part time and working part time or if they were working full time and paying rent to us. </p>
<p>Otherwise, unless they were too ill to work, they would not be welcome to live in our house as adults who were doing nothing productive. </p>
<p>We've seen too many young people who stayed at home after high school or after dropping out of college, and then spent their time hanging out with friends while living completely on their parents' funds. </p>
<p>I think that knowing our policy on this is what helped our college dropout older S finally get it together and get a fulltime job and straighten out his life after the overly kindhearted relative he was staying with rent free retired and moved away.</p>
<p>Wow. Mom60, your son didn't flunk out. He is willing to take a loan to replace his lost scholarship. He's taking responsibility for the consequences of his actions. Sure, work with him -- you're on his side, after all -- to have him work through what he'll do differently this coming school year, but your son certainly sound mature enough to go back.</p>
<p>I agree with owlice. I'm also ADD, and got on academic probation during my first year of college. I learned my lesson, stopped wasting time, stopped skipping classes, and cut back on my partying, and also got tutoring when I needed to. I graduated with honors from undergrad, and was at the top of my doctoral graduate class.</p>
<p>When motivated, ADD people can achieve with other people achieve, perhaps even more because ADD people have the ability to hyperfocus when they are inspired to accomplish things. </p>
<p>From how Mom60 describes her son's actions after losing his scholarship, sounds like he's now serious about his academics, and is poised to do well next year.</p>
<p>Wow thanks for all those responses, I will take a few mintues to address a few of you and your concerns/questions......</p>
<p>annika- We ARE testing our son on an every other day basis hence the reason we know he has not smoked pot in now 15 days,and to the person who sarcastically referred to it as it "being some kind of achievement", for US this IS an achievement, perhaps you cannot relate to that, but given what we have been through it indeed it and one we are very pleased about.</p>
<p>Blossom_ I think there are certain tactics in stating ones opinion and I AM here to hear advice based both on wisdom and personal experience however I do think there is a way to make that delivery particularly to someone who is already feeling quite low, down and vulnerable. If I wanted to listen to "my dog" I don't' think I would have wasted my time coming here. For the record, I had nothing to do with getting him the second job ( he spoke to a relative about it and was offered it on a part time basis, which he started today) I was completely out of the picture FYI. So theoretically I did not "dig him out of a hole."</p>
<p>Cindy- your question is a tough one however the answer at this point is "yes, we would be willing to cut him off". There are only so many chances for the taking, we have already outlined what we are expecting of him, and trust me it is very reasonable. I am happy that the outcome with your brother was such a positive one..its great to hear a comeback story!:)</p>
<p>ilsa- Please don't make assumptions, therapy is ongoing as we speak and has been off and on (though in the last two months weekly) and in fact is starting to show signs of effectiveness. We went through 2 therapists who claimed "my son was an angel, the epitome of a young gentleman and basically that there was nothing wrong with him". The second one looked at us like there was something wrong with US and found my son as he put it exceptionally charming and a delight! Now THAT was frustrating, finally we found someone who was able to penetrate his tough exterior and get underneath and is highly perceptive and skilled at dealing with him. He now is developing a trust and I see things are starting to "gel". I don't see a problem if I posted 2,000 threads....I would take a parent heavily excited and invested in her child's future than someone who doesn't care........since when is that a crime? I had many questions and got a tremendous amount of help here, and came to heavily rely on information that I got here, I do not nor will defend myself on this but at the same time didn't get your point. While I appreciate all the well meaning advice, I don't appreciate any presumptions without at least having the courtesy of asking and allowing me to answer and explain. </p>
<p>Last but not least, I have to add because I think this is really important, my "unmotivated" son graduated with all A's and 1 B. He received three highly coveted academic awards and these are all IB classes, we are talking very difficult college level courses. So this is not someone who was failing out of school by any stretch, he didn't necessarily work as hard as he could have however was conscientious enough to see that he did not only well but very well. So far though we realize its risky but honestly I think sending almost any kid away is risky...we are inclined to send him come September with clear and well laid out expectations on the table. If he fulfills them, things will continue for him and if not we know we will have given him every opportunity. I hope and pray he doesn't let us down, but I realize in the end it is totally up to him. We can only do so much. Northstar thanks for your candid and I am sure painful recollection about your sons and their stories, it certainly does shed light on lessons for all of us to remember.
Thanks to you all, whether or not I agree with you, I truly appreciate you taking the time to respond, share your many personal stories and give me the support and encourage I really need at a time like this.</p>
<p>P. S. He did show up to his job today, and came home with a semi smile ( I think he just felt so good at having done something positive)</p>
<p>I was also baffled about the comment about how many threads ctmom3 started. I did a search to see how many threads I've started, and the number is 60. I've been coming here for several years, and my older son is now 15, so all this time we have been nowhere near thinking about college. I found this website when I was looking for information on CTY. Looking at the threads I've started, they cover a wide range of subjects both having to do with parenting (CTY, teenage acne, broken trumpets, elementary school math homework) and not having to do with parenting (refrigerators, advice on using my new ipod). This is a site where I can ask a question on anything and get several very helpful answers within an hour, and sometimes dozens of answers over days.</p>
<p>Well ctmom, if you go back and read your opening thread, you will see it is QUITE dramatic! No, we had no way of knowing that your son was using pot to the point to which you are now regularly testing him. Nor did we have a clue that he was seeing a therapist on a regular basis, since you didn't mention that either. Then there is the little matter of the WOW addiction, which thread you began in December. That is great your son has gotten all A's and B's, kept up with spectacular EC's and community service, all the while playing video games and smoking pot. He is an amazing young man, indeed. :)</p>
<p>Imo, when you write such a dramatic post you shouldn't expect tepid responses. And yeah, I think over 100 THREADS <em>exclusively</em> about a son's college app process which started last October (during the time he was becoming addicted to WOW) is a little over the top. I think this was Northstarmom's point.</p>
<p>Nymom I am glad you understand the value of this online community and what a wealth of information it is.
Northstarmom, I totally agree with the notion that just about everyone has "some kind of demon in their closet" I am not one who is quick to judge because I know all too well that most of us are struggling with something and I wholeheartedly agree with you on that.
I also agree with how those who might judge us if we are not to send him to college are likely ultimately going to face some kind of challenge of their own with their son/daughter, so those in glass houses should not throw stones.
I think we all need to remember that, at this point we are taking it one day at a time.</p>
<p>Also, you might notice that EACH time I posted I mentioned that I did NOT mean to offend you in any way. I was just being honest. That is my nature. Again, I don't mean to offend, but I don't understand the purpose of writing about the agony your son has caused you, your husband and your younger children if you don't want honest comments and become defensive. If you don't want people to be "quick to judge" (which is exactly what you ARE asking them to do), then don't ask for their opinion! These games drive me nuts.</p>
<p>I suppose I will soon read comments about how it is perfectly possible to be addicted to gaming and use pot and still be an outstanding student, win awards, do ec's and community service, have no motivation and yet still be motivated, and that it happens all the time. I guess I must live in another dimension--either that, or my own son is just not that amazing that he could achieve that. </p>
<p>I think this will be the last "personal advice" thread I'll post on! :) </p>
<p>Good luck to you and your son, ctmom!!</p>
<p>isla, while your intention may have been to help and offer advice...... perhaps it is best for you find another thread to offer your "insights" and kind words. You came across mightly abrasive and perhaps as another person implied, generally when that kind of reaction is caused, it might be setting off something going on in your own life. I am not speculating just thinking of a reason why you came across so hostile. If you are implying that I in any way have exaggerated about my son and his final grades, to that I say....think what you wish. The only reason I brought it up is to prove that despite everything going on, this is obviously still a kid who underneath all the crap wants to do well and that it is still important to him, I added this because I think this adds another angle to this situation that I am still trying to figure out and I think is quite relevant in figuring out the answer to whether he goes away or not. I wasn't bragging by any stretch............this is as kid who is FAR from perfect, yet I will admit has the potential to be highly successful and has been given qualities that I think he is exceptionally lucky to have.
Furthermore, I think the fact that he was able to keep up his grades and receive a few awards points to the fact that he is not a lost cause but there is still a little light left in him, THAT was the reason I brought it up.
Please make no mistake, I VERY MUCH DO WANT opinions and advice but DON'T need or want accusations or presumptions.
Thanks and have a great day everyone! :)</p>
<p>No, dear. There is nothing going on in my own life. My S has had a job since May at a local grocer, he does not use pot, and he has never been addicted to online gaming. He is in addition dealing with a serious illness and handling it admirably.</p>
<p>You may not have realized it, but over all your posts you have painted a very, very negative picture of your son. You don't see it because you love him. Others have seen the lying, disrespect, laziness, drug use, manipulation, belligerence, physical threats as highly negative traits. </p>
<p>Personally I would have kicked him in the backside a long time ago.</p>
<p>You won't find much sympathy from me, based on your descriptions of him, because I LONG AGO (when my "gifted" S was in preschool) decided that character should trump GPA. As I've expressed in other posts, I am astonished at the lengths parents will go to make excuses for their kids because they do well in school. I think this attitude is not doing their kids any favors whatsoever, and also leading to a lot of problems in our society as a whole.</p>
<p>Let's keep focused on the fact that it is your son, you, and your family who is the focus of the thread here, not me or other posters.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You won't find much sympathy from me, based on your descriptions of him, because I LONG AGO (when my "gifted" S was in preschool) decided that character should trump GPA
[/quote]
.</p>
<p>Nicely put. I totally agree.</p>
<p>You might randomize your drug testing schedule. From what I hear from my son they can buy some sort of detox at GNC that can help you pass a drug test. It is expensive.
In my area pot smoking is fairly common in young adult males. From what I have heard from friends it is also not so rare in people of our age range. Since I pass at minimum 3 pot dispensaries on my way driving my D to school I would say that they have plenty of buyers. And I know these are not the only dispensaries in town. (drive less 15 minutes with no traffic)
My son does smoke pot on occasion. I don't smell it on him but I can peg him based on behavior. Less motivation and an edge to his personality on the following day. I can tell when he is going through periods of not smoking. A much more pleasant kid to live with.</p>
<p>MOM60 I so agree, the behavior is the dead giveaway for sure. Its troubling but I believe a lot of my own son's doing it is out of boredom and influence from other kids.....we normally test him every three days or so now and according to his doctor this is 99% accurate, but often I am tell even without a test, based upon his demeanor and moods.
I agree with character trumping GPA, in fact I think that is practically a given, at least I hope so. Oh how I have tried, and believe me in some ways have succeeded, this is a kid who devoted over two years to tutoring inner city kids and did so well, he has had his moments of glory, and I hope there are many more in his future. His character is FAR more important than his GPA or academic achievements but lately that is all I have had to hold onto, I am doing everything WITHIN MY POWER, including therapy, deprivation, taking away privileges,etc....talking to him incessantly and hoping its sinking in. I am trying and that is all anyone can do.</p>