What to do when you think your son is truly not ready for college?

Parents Forum
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<p>ctmom,</p>

<p>I think the big challenge here is that there are just a few weeks to go before college starts there is no way to guarantee if the turn around that your son has shown over the past 14 days (staying clean, starting work at his summer job) is permanent. The turn around has been primarily instigated and enforced by you as the parent.</p>

<p>The original question was what to do with a child that isn't showing signs of being ready for college. I think the frustrating answer is that even if over the last 6 weeks of summer that your son stays sober and motivated, this is <em>not</em> a long enough track record for anyone to know, guess, or speculate with any accuracy what will happen with your son in the fall when/if he goes away to college. </p>

<p>When your son goes away to college, everything within your power (therapy, deprivation, taking away privileges) will be greatly diminished. You won't be able to give him drug tests once every 2 or 3 days or be able to see first hand exactly how he spends his days and push him out the door to classes, or to get homework done, or to get off the computer game, to go to bed, etc. (And if you needed to do that while he is away, that would answer the question about whether or not going away to college is appropriate for him.)</p>

<p>In many ways, you are still at square one with the big question.</p>

<p>I think the best piece of advice anyone can give you right now is to realize this will be likely a long term process. The reality is that there are some kids who will straighten out in this interim time of summer before going off to college and really make the changes needed to do well in college and beyond. There are some kids who will swing between immature and mature behaviors. There are some kids who will crash and burn and stay down for a long time. In all these scenarios, the potential for the adult child to do good things with his life are still there. </p>

<p>The only thing anyone here is trying to share with you is the idea that these past 14 days (and the next few weeks) will in no way be a good predictor of his behavior once he goes to college - because the environment will be 100 times more permissive and your daily presense with a dip stick will be 100 miles away (so to speak). </p>

<p>I'm positive everyone on this list wishes you and your family the absolute best. There is no need to feel defensive (even if you don't like some posters' blunt style). I think your post is getting a lot of response because what you are going through is something many parents fear or have had to struggle with in their own families - but I think some of the ongoing nature of this thread is fueled by your defensive stances. It invites repeated rounds. </p>

<p>Annika</p>

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<p>annik, fair enough, I will admit that yes, I did find certain posters quite offensive and unfairly so or at least they could have been a bit less belligerent. However I do agree there is no sure thing, that said even with a totally seemingly ready student, there is also no guarantee there either..who is to say that perfect kid who seems so well prepared may not go and become severely depressed, start drinking heavily, giving into peer pressure that she/he has not had the experience of dealing with? We go to the therapist tomorrow and I because of this fantastic board will have a new round of questions and ideas to share with her. Our minds are not yet made up and as said before we are taking this one day at a time. I suspect we will not make a final decision until at least the second week of Aug, when tuition is due......sometimes in life, you have to go with your gut and do something which to some might throw caution to the wind....I am not going to say which way I am leaning though our inclination has always been to send him since he continues to express a desire to go and succeed.....he will have to prove himself over this next month or so.
In the meantime, despite my not always agreeing with everyone here, from the bottom of my heart, I truly appreciate everything everyone has done and taken the time to comment on. Believe me its of great comfort during these rocky times. Thank you and good night!</p>

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<p>ctmomof3: Do you have anything else to do besides express your anxiety about this boy?</p>

<p>You have gotten a lot of responses, probably all saying pretty much the same thing. </p>

<p>Frankly, I would be embarrassed to be posting about this sad state of affairs so often. It also says something about you. And perhaps what happened to your son that he is where he is today.</p>

<p>Can you send him to live with another relative? Get him out of the situation he is in? This probably should have happened many years ago, you know.</p>

<p>Well, good luck. We all have our miseries. I certainly have my own share.</p>

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<p>Ctmomof3- Don't stop posting. We all have our issues. CC should be a safe place to ask for advice.
You might think about doing some reading on setting boundaries. Boundaries that are for you as much as your son. Also they should not be boundaries that you are not going to be able to keep. So if it is something you don't think you or your spouse will carry through don't set it.
It sounds like in spite of some misgivings you are feeling like giving him the chance to go to school in the fall. One boundary you might have set earlier in the summer was that if he wanted the opportunity to go to school he needed to complete the summer program in Utah or have a job each day of the summer. But that is in the past.
I would suggest you work with the therapist to set clear goals for the fall with your son and outline the consequences if he does not met them. I for one would not give my child the option of attending another school with campus housing if he doesn't do well even if it is a CC. I might suggest you say he live at home and work or attend a college from home. Or if he doesn't want to live at home he needs to support himself.
As for smoking pot. You really can't blame it on boredom or friends. He makes choices as to who he spends time with. We talk about this constantly to dead ears at our house. What we have told our son is it can't happen in my house and if he gets arrested we are not bailing him out or hiring an attorney. That he will make due with a public defender. He of course laughs since in his mind no one gets in trouble for just pot.
Once at school he is going to have to make new friends. The type of friend he choses is going to be up to him. He will find all kinds. If he choses to smoke on campus he runs the risk of losing housing. You can say that if that happens you will not pay for him to live off campus and he would have to come home. That is a boundary with a clear consequence.
Also he is going to find every imaginable video and gaming system and many willing participants to play. He can play all night long. There is no way you can have any control over that. You can say he can not use your money for a World of War subscription. If he plays all night long and misses class then his grades will suffer. You can have consequences for poor grades but not for game playing.
I don't know if the game playing was worse for my son due to the type of dorm he was in. He was in a small dorm on an all male floor. Of the 30 males he said only 2 of them never played including my son's roommate. If your son is on a mixed gender floor maybe the game playing will not be the all consuming time sucker it was for my son's floor.
He will only begin to change when his life becomes uncomfortable living it the way he is now. Things to take away, Spending money, use of a car, cell phone.
Good luck to you. As a parent of an 18 yr old male you have my sympathies.</p>

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<p>I'm a little confused--has he been accepted to college and will he start in the fall? If he has maintained excellent grades last year in spite of all the difficulties and if he is a reliable employee, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that for some reason he can be responsible UNLESS you are in some way involved. </p>

<p>If he is accepted and things are set I say establish a written agreement with him so that it is crystal clear what your expectations are. Bear in mind that once they are in college all you get to react to are results--not behaviors. A common requirement in our neighborhood since we are within 5 minutes of the flagship is that if the kid wants to move out the GPA has to be 3.00 freshman year--anything below that they move home and submit to high-school style parental supervision. I suppose that if it falls below some minimum level the parents pull the plug on educational support.</p>

<p>I will also say that boys are a big challenge--the minute they seem to "get" personal responsibility they want to cast off the shackles of mom. Some of the pot smoking and other rebellion may just be posturing--I notice he didn't let his grades fall, he only drove you crazy. I'd toss him out and express cheerful confidence in his ability to cope. Your only risk is a semester's tuition.</p>

<p>Edit: I see now upon rereading he has NOT been a good employee. If he is not showing up his employer should fire his a**. I see it is a relative. I wonder if you are being too helpful and he is being smothered and acting out.</p>

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<p>mombot,yes he was accepted, in fact ended up getting many acceptances and ultimately is slated to attend this first choice school. He finally did start working 2 days ago and so far things are OK, but then again its just the beginning. He for the first time in a long time last night asked to speak to me and we spoke at length and in a nutshell he outlined that he is very tired of the situation he is in, and that basically he always knew he would change when HE is ready (doesn't' surprise me a bit, its always been like that). My relative who he is working for, told him 1 sick day per two months allowed and if he cannot adhere he will be let go of. We have been outlining very strict guidelines for college in terms of our expectations. This is an ongoing process. I agree with the boys, the challenges, that go along with it.
I am not going to say I had no part in this situation, perhaps I was there too much and facilitated certain things, it was only out of love but as time marches on and I have been faced with these challenges, I am becoming stronger and more resilient.
Mom60-thanks for your kind post, despite the rude comment before you which I totally do not agree with, I will not stop posting because this is a valuable resource and I really trust and have come to rely on the excellent advice and wisdom of the parents on this board. You are correct about all the temptations at college and the fact that we won't be there to say yes or no, it will be all up to him. This is the biggest challenge of all. The therapist said all we can do now is outline very carefully (in writing) our expectations with regard to behavior, attendance, grades and if he should fail to live up to it, first semester, he will not be allowed to continue, and if he does, then things will continue. It is a chance that we will likely take, but again we take it one day at a time.
Irving- I just want to say that I took great offense to your post. Without knowing me or my son, how dare you say I should be embarrassed! I am very distressed and at time depressed, yes, but I should be embarrassed of this. Apparently you have not had problems or have perfect kids...good for you. Don't however be critical of someone else's misfortune. As I previously stated, I come here for great advice, support and often new approaches of handling things. This is a great network as all are parents of college bound 18 yr olds just like my son. I have had an unusually rough year and a half with him, have I wanted this? Of course not, am I am trying to get through it? The best way that I can. He is OUR child and we are going to deal with this, not ship him off to a relative...it is not their problem but our own. I have done nothing short of being a loving and supportive mom. I do not blame myself and its taken about 2 years of therapy to finally say that so to see a post as offensive and hurtful as yours is really over the top, spiteful and unnecessary.</p>

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<p>"I do not blame myself and its taken about 2 years of therapy to finally say that "</p>

<p>You have my empathy. When older S's life went downhill, I kept obsessing about what I must have done wrong. On top of that, my MIL insisted that I must have abused my S, and my SIL, whom S was staying with, swallowed S's lies that he was a depressed, unhappy person because H and I never supported his music aspirations. (I bought S's guitar, H and I paid for lessons for him, I used to drive 40 miles roundtrip to take him to lessons, and I told him that his rock band was welcome to practice at our house).</p>

<p>I send you and your family every warm wish that things will work out for your S. I know how painful and difficult your situation is, and I wish you well.</p>

<p>The only other advice I have is to stick to the requirements you've outlined for S to stay in college. Having worked with more than 1,000 substance abusers and their families, and having had my experience with older S, I know how substance abusers can misrepresent situations to hide the fact that their abuse led to their own failures and problems. I also know how sincerely remorseful and insightful they can seem to be after they mess up. So, unless your S gets low grades due to something like a documented hospitalization, if he doesn't meet the standards you've set, then follow through on removing him from college.</p>

<p>I do hope, however, that he has turned the corner and will have an exemplary college career.</p>

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<p>I hope things turn out well for you, ct. If your son is saying self-reflective things, there's hope.</p>

<p>Generally, if a kid isn't a self motivator, I wonder whether it's better to keep them at home and prod them for another 1-2 years (hoping they'll mature during that time), or let them sink or swim at a residential college?</p>

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<p>TreeTop, congrats, you have the $64 question! (Or in ct's case, the $50,000 question, or in my case the $8,000 question.) We are letting ours go because he would be miserable if he didn't, and it's not a large investment for us - as college costs go - among other personal considerations. Of course we have the 'written contract' thing, altho consequences have never bothered him before (he just resigns himself to them) so I'm just holding my breath. If he must leave school, it won't be the end of the world - he can work, go to CC, join the service... and see how things go from there.</p>

<p>Ctmom - I wasn't familiar with your threads before this one, but the discussion made me curious, and I glanced thru your titles, and some of the initial posts. From my limited view, I didn't see any (except WOW which I didn't actually read) that showed anxiety about his readiness or personal issues, but a great deal with questions of general admissions minutae and 'which-of-these-1st-tiers-is-better" type questions. I would have thought he was the model teenager. I also thought the sheer quantity made you seem a tad bit over-involved in the process, but that's just my opinion (and the subject of many, many other threads, so please nobody get started!). Forgive me if my limited view is skewed. Again, good luck to you and your son.</p>

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<p>ctmom, I have read through these posts, and I only wanted to say that you have my empathy as well. I can see that you are a loving, very concerned parent undergoing a lot of stress because you have little control about what will happen if you send your son to college. I don't find you to be over involved. You have a son who has required your involvement and guidance, and he is very fortunate to have a parent like you. There is no crystal ball into the future. You can only, as you say, go with your gut intinct. If things do not work out, you might be more depressed, but you can regroup and move on. He also might go on to do very well. I wish your family all the best.</p>

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<p>My son has not had the same problems as ctmom's (well, he does spend too much time goofing around on the computer, but not to the addiction level), but he is one of those 18 y/o boys who tries to skate by with the bare minimum on schoolwork, wants to sleep till noon, very disorganized, etc. I am concerned about him keeping up with his schoolwork without me there to nag him every minute. :)</p>

<p>I feel very lucky, though. S will be on ROTC scholarship, and though he won't lose the scholarship unless he goes below a 2.0, his commanders will have access to his grades and they will be the ones giving him all kinds of grief if he isn't keeping his grades up. :big happy sigh!:</p>

<p>He is super happy about the school he is going to and wants to be there, so I do have hope that he will rise to the occasion (though I have no illusions about what his dorm room will look like and I feel very sorry for his roommates).</p>

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<p>ctmom,Your son is very lucky to have a concerned, involved, and caring parent such as yourself. If not for you, would he have even applied to college? You certainly have my respect for what you have been able to accomplish with him so far. A few years from now, after your son has more emotional maturity, he will be extremely thankful that you did what you had to do to keep him on track. </p>

<p>I once heard somebody say "why did I let an immature teenager make the most important decision of my life?" This person was, of course, referring to himself, wishing that an adult had stepped in to give him better advice.</p>

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<p>"I don't find you to be overinvolved." </p>

<p>I have to laugh at that one, sorry! My first thread here (I've started two) was a question about the definition of college matches and reaches. On that thread, which was very informative btw, and on which most posters were very, very helpful, two posters admonished me to "get my kid involved!" That was my FIRST post on the subject! And this is when my kid was still in second semester of junior year, spent a week in the hospital in January, dealing with a serious illness, and keeping up his grades without falling back on the escape of pot or video games!</p>

<p>ctmom, you have started over 100 <em>THREADS</em> about your son's college applications since October. You have stated that your son became addicted to video games around this time and by your own account his behavior was atrocious toward you and your husband.</p>

<p>This summer, though he hasn't used pot for two weeks (under a strict regimen of testing), he has refused to get a job. So far, if he completes today, he has worked two days since he graduated high school. He lied to you about the first job. </p>

<p>This kid is sending signals up to high heaven that he is not ready to go away to school. All the "contracts" in the world are not going to change that. By your own account, he dismisses all your imposed "consequences", because you and your husband don't follow through. Why in the world would he think you are going to follow through on this contract?</p>

<p>You blame your husband, but you stated early on that your husband felt your S did not deserve to go to college. On July 11 you stated that in your heart you were "deeply worried" about his "being able to possess the maturity and decision making ability to handle himself away...."</p>

<p>In my opinion (which you don't want to hear, I know) nothing has changed since July 11. And nothing is going to change in six weeks either. </p>

<p>He may be an intelligent kid, and I'm sure he has much potential. He's just not ready to go far away to college <em>at this time.</em></p>

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<p>timely, do you think those commanders might be available for hire to give my 15-year-old grief about his grades? This would be worth almost any price to me!</p>

<p>ctmom, I am keeping your and your son in my thoughts. I hope that your new behavior toward him will help him pull things together very soon. Your son is fortunate to have you.</p>

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<p>Ilsa, I agree that "he sent signals up to high heaven" that he is not ready for college. This is a student who requires more guidance and support. That does not mean that,
[quote]
"I don't find you to be overinvolved." </p>

<p>I have to laugh at that one, sorry!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Perhaps this stuent requires additional support, and will continue to require student support in college. For now, his mother has been very involved, but for her son she finds it necessary. Another parent with self motivated, organized, self starters can be hands off. I don't understand all of the judgements made against ctmom. She is trying to the best thing for her son, and get him on the right track.</p>

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<p>I just don't understand the mama birds who think that the way to teach their babies to fly is to keep them in the nest longer.</p>

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<p>I haven't read every post on this thread, but I'm a psychologist who has worked with a lot of adolescents, both inpatient and outpatient. I'd like to suggest that any parents doing contracts with their kids allow the kids to suggest the behaviors and the consequences for not upholding the behaviors. In my experience, when kids set their own guidelines, they have a lot more buy-in to standing by them. They also, in my experience, come up with tougher consequences that their parents (or therapists) would even consider. Just a thought. The discussion could start with, "What do you think your father and I should reasonably expect from you while you're in college?" You might be surprised.</p>

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<p>I looked back and found that S's college is entirely paid for by a grandparent who left money in his will. Perhaps this has contributed in some way to the son's not feeling that he has to contribute to his college degree by working this summer.</p>

<p>This is not Judgement AGAINST ctmom, for heaven's sake!</p>

<p>How did this turn into a referendum on ctmom's parenting skills or the life experiences of contributing posters?</p>

<p>She asked for advice, from Strangers, and that is what she is getting, even though, in her words, "we don't know her." Perhaps if she doesn't care for some of the advice she is getting, she should ask advice from people who do know her!</p>

<p>The OP explicitly asked for opinions. I have taken time to actually READ many of the OP's threads since October of 2007.</p>

<p>I am very, very sorry to say that I have doubts as to whether this boy has had ANY input whatsoever in the college process. It seems as if there is some schizophrenia involved here, as another poster mentioned, above. </p>

<p>One ctmom started literally a hundred threads about her S, who had a rocky freshman year (a D and an F) but ended up with a 3.0 gpa, a 2,000 SAT and "tons" of ec's and community service.</p>

<p>Another ctmom posted two agonizing posts (one in December '07 and one in April, '08, I believe) about her son being "addicted" to WOW and Halo.</p>

<p>I still ask the question: how can a boy achieve all this while being "addicted" to video games and pot? </p>

<p>By definition, an "addiction" diagnosis is arrived at by deciding if the addiction is interfering in one's life. If this boy was able to apply on his own to all colleges, fill out all his apps, ponder all the questions about college that ctmom stated he pondered, maintain decent grades, study for SATs, do ec's and community service while playing video games for the past 10 months and smoking pot, then more power to him. There was no need for all the sturm and drang on the part of ctmom, was there?</p>

<p>Originally we were asked to comment on whether he was ready for college BEFORE we found out he was being tested for drugs EVERY THREE DAYS. Apparently calmom feels that is no reason not to go ahead and push the birdie out of the nest--I disagree, but then it's not my money, is it.</p>

<p>I kind of feel as if I've been suckered into wasting my time on a situation in which I don't know all the facts. I feel as if ctmom is looking for one answer and one answer only, the one that fits into her preconceived view: that her son will attend a prestigious college in the fall. Those who don't hold this view need not apply.</p>

<p>But, hey, this is a message board--what did I expect? No hard feelings!</p>

<p>I'm sure he'll do just fine in college.</p>

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<p>Aaah...because this is CC. Just kidding. But seriously, if you don't think your kid is ready to take college seriously, but he is going anyway--I would do it in such a way that you won't be out $$$$$. If he succeeds, fabulous; if he crashes and burns, you won't have serious money issues. Damage control...</p>

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<p>I didn't read all the posts and I don't have much advice. I struggle with my own kids and question my parenting skills so I can sympathize with ctmom. I just have a comment on the subject over involvement as I have been mulling over it for myself. </p>

<p>I think, if the child turn out well then the decision resulting in the course of action will be judge as right , when the events turn out not so well, then we'll tend to think we did too much or too little. </p>

<p>I know if my kids turn out wonderfully - graduate in 4 years with decent grades and some foundation to be financially independent I would have more likely think I did everything right, and if the kids didn't turn out that way, I will more likely think I did something wrong - over involved/not involved enough/not effective enough.</p>