What to do when your child feels like they are failing

Parents Forum
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<p>I have a D who is a sophomore at a pretty selective university majoring in Mechanical Engineering. She was accepted to the u and fell in the middle 50% of students accepted. The first year went ok, she is very competitive and the classes were hard but both semesters she had a 3.25 GPA.</p>

<p>This year has been a struggle in every area. Because of a mix up she has a single. She thought that she would like it but it's been hard to hook up with friends and they seem to have moved on with their dorms and have forgotten about her. The dorm I hear is very quiet and she has not met anyone in her dorm. My mom visited her and said that the dorm was eerie, it was so quiet. No one has their doors open and it was very very quiet. My D is pretty shy and quiet, she's friendly but not super outgoing.</p>

<p>She calls me every day and tells me that she is going to fail "all of her classes". She has always freaked out about classes but it's so much worse this year. The first round of tests did not go very well, I think that she failed one of the tests, got a D in another and a "low" C in the other one. She signed up and received tutoring in the class that she failed the first test in and it helped a lot. She did better on the second test but calls and tells me that she it won't help because she did so bad on the first test. This is what she is telling me about all of her classes, that she did so bad on the first test, it's hopeless now. One test she thought she did really well on and the other she knew what she was doing but only completed 2/3 of the test, she ran out of time. She tells me all of the time that she is too stupid to go to this particular school and everyone is so much smarter than her. She also told me that a friend got the same failing grade on the test that she failed but she isn't even going to tutoring. She claims that none of the classes are going to be curved, that she is "way below average" and that it's doomed.</p>

<p>She keeps calling and telling me that she's failing and that she wants to come home and go to a school where she won't flunk out of. </p>

<p>There is a pattern of her wanting to move on from a situation once the going gets rough. She was unhappy in HS and told us everyday how she hated it there and wanted us to move so she could be happier. We couldn't move and she stayed at her HS but has told us over and over again how unfair we were not to move her. So now college is rough and she's having problems with friends and she wants to do the same thing.</p>

<p>My H is very against her transferring. He and she had a big fight before she went to college. He thinks that she is very ungrateful for what we have provided her with. She went to one of the best HS in the state and hated that and now she is at one of the best colleges in the nation and hates that. He also thinks that she is a drama queen and that is the reason she is having problems with friends and that she needs to "deal with it". It also is very expensive to transfer in that it will probably take her longer to graduate and that will be more expenses.</p>

<p>I am walking a fine line between everyone. I've told her that they constant drama is making me so nervous and I am having anxiety problems. She will not go to counseling. I've begged and pleaded. She doesn't want to talk about her problems with a bunch of strangers, I guess that the counseling service has group sessions for kids and she wants none of that. She alternates between trying to improve her situation and being defeated. </p>

<p>Some of the problem is that she wants to have lots of girl friends and that is not that easy being an engineering major. She meets tons of boys, not that many girls. She won't do things unless she has a crowd of girls to do it with and since she's not getting along with the girls, she's not doing much. </p>

<p>One of the other major problems is that she is 800 miles from home and it is not easy to get home. We have limited resources and cannot go to visit all of the time or fly her home. We are not visiting for parents weekend because I have purchased a plane ticket home for thanksgiving. My H is very angry at her and feels that she manipulates me to do things for her when she whines like this. He thinks that it's plenty to come home for thanksgiving and not to go there for parents weekend as it is a major expense that we cannot afford. </p>

<p>I am feeling very guilty because this weekend is parents weekend and her birthday. She is miserable and I can't be there.</p>

<p>Thanks for listening to this novel. LOL. I am at my wits end at all of this and don't know how to react. I have told her that she can't keep dumping on me all the time but she says she has no one else to talk to. I know if I give into her and let her come home or transfer, she will be unhappy there also.</p>

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<p>Hugs to you. This must be unbearable for you to be in the middle.</p>

<p>I think you have three problems running simultaneously here:</p>

<p>1- academic- ME is a tough major; she could have had tippy top stats walking in to college and could still be struggling mightily by sophomore year. So I think the two of you need to have a calm and rational talk about whether this is the right path for her. There are PLENTY of successful engineering majors who struggled-- so I’m not suggesting that she can’t turn things around, or won’t grow to love it-- but if she’s no longer feeling committed to the major, she has plenty of pain ahead of her- next semester might be worse.</p>

<p>There are many disciplines which would take advantage of her math skills which might not be as much of a slog- statistics, finance, economics to pick the first three that pop into my head. So she needs to talk to her adviser and a Dean to get some clarity on whether this is something she wants to stick with or if it’s time to assess some other majors.</p>

<p>If she sticks- her adviser for sure will want her to get some additional help and more resources to get her through the semester successfully. It’s to nobody’s interest to have her flunk a class by sophomore year.</p>

<p>2- social. May or may not be improved if the academics improve. Any chance she can apply to change dorms for next semester? Any chance you can get her to join a club (recognizing she doesn’t have a lot of time with her academics) or join a volunteer type group on campus? habitat for humanity? coat drive for a local homeless shelter??? These aren’t as time consuming as the performing arts groups or editing a newspaper but will still get her “out there” with other kids.</p>

<p>3- her personality. Which is going to be pretty much set at this point-- so the only thing that can change here is how you react to the drama. And I’d encourage you to work on that-- no reason you should feel guilty or feel that any of this is your fault. It’s only natural that you’d want to help your D who is feeling bad- but you didn’t create this situation and you can’t fix this situation. You can fix your interactions with your H over this- that sounds awful- and you can stop feeling like you can fix your D (transferring without identifying the academic and social issues sounds to me like a recipe for disaster).</p>

<p>Hugs.</p>

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<p>One thing for the social, has your D hooked up with either Society of Women Engineers (SWE) or Women in Science and Engineering (WISE)? Most campuses have one or the other.</p>

<p>It DOES make a difference to have other women who are going through the same thing. ANd they will help with study groups, too.</p>

<p>Edit to add:</p>

<p>YOU come here and get advice! Stay calm! It won’t be the end of the world no matter what happens so long as you keep communicating with your D. Do double check her for depression, but other than that, I’d say let her dump on you and you dump here and it will all turn out OK.</p>

<p>And FWIW, I had a very successful career in engineering withOUT getting a 3.25 and WITH FAILING thermodynamics (should have dropped it, but I didn’t know that). I still don’t know what my parents thought about that grade. …</p>

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<p>Thanks. I think that she wants to stay in engineering. It’s not that she’s not understanding the material. It’s just that she thinks that the curve is too high at her particular school. I will talk to her at Thanksgiving and xmas about how she wants to proceed. She claims that they can only receive tutoring in one class per semester. She is receiving help from other classmates.</p>

<p>She did try to join APO this semester. She had to drop out because meeting kept conflicting with review sessions for classes that she felt she could not miss. She is in two music ensembles but claims that she is not meeting that many people. I think that she is meeting people, I think that she lacks people to go to dinner with and to go out with. She’s very busy during the week and has things to do, the weekends kind of drag on. She also has a couple of group projects that she is doing also. I think that she wants to rush next semester but I wonder if her grades will preclude that.</p>

<p>She has joined SWE but I don’t know how active she is. The big problem is that she won’t go places unless a friend goes. It’s a big problem. She claims that you can’t go without a friend, you look like a big loser. I’ll talk to her about it and if they have study groups.</p>

<p>Thanks for the hugs, I need them today.</p>

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<p>If there are peer study groups in your daughter’s classes, I encourage her to join them. Both my daughters majored in engineering, and there is no way they could have succeeded without their study groups. Not only were the groups helpful for understanding difficult material, but they also provided critical emotional support when the going got tough. Sororities were also great support systems for my daughters.</p>

<p>It’s common for engineering students in selective schools to have rough patches. I can’t tell you how many times my daughters told me they were failing (they weren’t–not even close.) Has your daughter spoken with other students in her classes? I’m willing to bet that more than a few of them are struggling. </p>

<p>Hang in there! Things will get better.</p>

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<p>Deb- even if she wants to stick with engineering she may find Industrial Engineering or Civil a tad easier- a little more leeway on the curve in Sophomore year. So unless she’s got some highly specialized research or career interest, I still think meeting with an academic dean to talk about how it’s going is a necessary next step. She is not the first or even the hundredth sophomore to feel that it’s too brutal… she needs to connect with the “grown ups” who do this for a living to get some perspective!</p>

<p>I don’t know what you do with the whole, “I can’t show up alone” syndrome except to listen and be sympathetic without reminding her (as you have done 100 times, I’m sure) that she isn’t going to meet people by sitting in her room. So keep listening and try not to internalize it. At some point she will either get over it and actually go to something fun by herself and meet people and realize that she can do it, or she won’t- but you can’t get her there, and your misery isn’t helping her.</p>

<p>If she’s talking about rushing maybe the whole transfer conversation is just a way for her to vent to you. So keep in mind that maybe she calls you during a miserable moment which passes… and then she’s fine. You’re left with the sadness while she’s off feeling better. So try confining the amount of time you spend on the phone with her. I’m not saying not to be available- but if she’s calling you to vent, hangs up and feels better, and then you’re stuck feeling awful all day- maybe talking less frequently will help you both. She’ll develop other coping mechanisms (like reaching out to make friends) and you’ll have the emotional wherewithall to be there for the actual crises, not just the 'oh i’m having a bad day so let’s call Mom" kind of deal.</p>

<p>We all have bad days and part of her next step in separating from you is learning which bad days she can handle on her own and without drama and tears.</p>

<p>More hugs. What a mess!</p>

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<p>She claims that you can’t go without a friend, you look like a big loser."</p>

<p>This is a high school attitude that I also heard from my frosh D at the beginning of the semester. I talked to her very seriously about how it’s time to think like a college student: it’s no longer about cliques and who you know and who you sit with, or if you sit by yourself. Emphasizing the social freedom of choice one has in college, plus the fact that really, in college no one cares who you do or don’t hang around with (and if they do care, they are still stuck in high school mentality) helped her, I think. I pointed out that adults in the working world don’t forfeit networking opportunities because they “don’t have anyone to go with” and in fact, it’s a sign of great maturity, self-confidence and independence to go to events by yourself.
I know this is easier said than done when you are an insecure college student, but I do think it helped my daughter get out the door. And of course, then she met people :).</p>

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<p>I’m surprised that there aren’t enough girls in engineering she can hang out with. I was an engineering student in the early 80s and had a good circle of female friends in my major. They were lifesavers! Studying in a group IS essential. Some of the HW problems are killers, and she really needs to understand how to do them. I also learned how to get along with the guys - they were great. I even found a couple of guys in their mid-20s who treated me like their little sister and were SO helpful.</p>

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<p>Engineering is a tough major and while more girls are going into it (when my sister graduated there were only 2 female ME graduates: my sister and another girl). It sounds like she’s doing everything she can but yes, she’s dumping on you. Sophomore year is where the pedal meets the metal in terms of whether she can make it or needs to think of another major, hopefully her advisor is keeping tabs on her and can advise in that regard. It’s possible rushing will “solve” her social issues, but it can be time consuming and she should weigh carefully how much time she devotes to studying and social if she goes that route. My sister, whose engineering school was one of the nation’s top, used to laugh and say that engineering majors take Saturday night off and that’s it, and they can’t party too hearty because they have to get right back to it on Sunday. I doubt that has changed much in three decades. You marriage is important so take care of that. It IS generous that you are bringing her home for Thanksgiving. When my oldest picked a school far, far away, we were quite clear that we would only expend money to bring him home at Christmas and at the end of the school year. If you were clear about this with her when she left, then do not feel guilty. Whether she “sticks” it in engineering, sticks it at this college/uni or not is ultimately her decision and she may be wanting you to come rescue her but I think you need to let her make her own decisions so they don’t become “your decisions.” Sometimes kids do need to dump but if it gets excessive just text her and tell her you are busy and you’ll call her back “later” so you can establish some boundaries for your personal life and give her some space to work through whatever she was going to “dump” on you. My admin has a really drama/needy son who was very unhappy, lonely, far away etc. and would call her everyday and dump all negativity, I have no friends, I hate this place, classes aren’t going well, you know the drill. She was a much better person than I because I could not have taken that every day LOL. Eventually he just showed up on their doorstep for Christmas and said he wasn’t going back, but the decision was his. This is the important point.</p>

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<p>If your daughter isn’t comfortable about joining existing study groups (or there aren’t any), would she feel comfortable about asking a few of her classmates if they’re interested in forming a new group?</p>

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<p>What are her professors telling her about her performance in class? Surely she’s been to see them, yes?</p>

<p>(I’m thinking not; she should.)</p>

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<p>Maybe she could still arrange to participate in service projects with the APO kids, planning to join/attend meetings later.</p>

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<p>Wait. What? This doesn’t sound right.</p>

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<p>I don’t know where this came from, but it isn’t true. She can see a psychologist or psychiatrist alone. I think that you are thinking of group therapy (like for alcohol/drug addictions…among many other things).</p>

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<p>owlice, you are so right. I’m sure she hasn’t talked to her professors. I will talk to her about her performance. Whenever I’ve talked to her about dropping a class, she says that isn’t necessary. I will also make her talk to someone about tutoring and can she have it in more than one class. She is receiving help from friends in classes she is having problems with. </p>

<p>I’ll also talk to her about doing APO activities even if she can’t join. I am concerned that she won’t have the time to join a sorority. I think she is too. </p>

<p>See I think that many of you are right. She does have things to do. They just aren’t what she wants to do. I think she would like to be one of those people who can just learn it without really trying, which as adults we know that doesn’t happen. Finally school is really hard and she has to get used to that reality. As many on here school has been easy and not a lot of work. Now it’s hard and even with hours and hours of studying there are others who are better. </p>

<p>I also think that she wants others to rescue her. Me, to rescue her from her misery. Friends must contact her and ask her. When they don’t, no one likes her, she doesn’t have any friends. It’s very tiresome.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the support. I think that’s just what I needed. For me to dump on someone not to always be the dumpee.</p>

<p>I have a son in engineering at another school. His school is not so selective and we heard about lots of support. I know he has tutoring centers and study groups and all of the support that I thought engineering schools have. But my D tells me that these things don’t exist at her school. That everyone is so smart they have no need for tutoring centers and such. That if you have to have tutors for more than one subject, you shouldn’t be there. I have no idea.</p>

<p>I will talk to her about these things. Of course I heard this morning that I am treating her like a 3 year old. It’s been a long semester.</p>

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<p>What school is this? I’d look at the school website myself and see if there are tutoring centers.</p>

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<p>Oh Deb, you’re in such a tough place. I’ll bet for your daughter it just feels good to dump on you, and then she just goes back to her life! She probably has no idea how you agonize (how could she, she’s never been a parent!) To have her so far away and not be able to influence her problems must be so hard!</p>

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<p>I always tell my daughters that when they talk to me they need to say something good before they go to bad.</p>

<p>My older daughter is at a competitive college with a very good engineering school. They have office hours for every class few times a week, which my daughter said not that many people take advantage of. They also have tutors at various major (school) office where anyone could walk in for help. My daughter found a tutor for her economics class by just going to the department’s office. He helped D1 with her problem sets all semester, which she never told her classmates about. She did very well in that class. </p>

<p>I was going to be a physics major. Two years into it I realized I just wasn’t cut out for it. I switched to math because it was easier.:slight_smile: Does your daughter really enjoy ME? If she is struggling so much, maybe it’s not for her. There is no reason why she shouldn’t switch. By doing so, she may then have more time to socialize.</p>

<p>At some point your daughter will need to be responsible for her own happiness.</p>

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<p>I’m sorry to be so blunt, but it sounds to me like your daughter is making excuses because she doesn’t want to ask for help for some reason.</p>

<p>If she attends a selective engineering school, I could just about guarantee that her school has all the support systems in place that your son’s less-selective school has, and possibly more. </p>

<p>The most selective engineering schools are extremely rigorous. The material is so difficult that even the smartest kids struggle at times and need help. How do I know? Well, my two daughters studied at MIT, which is one of the most rigorous engineering schools in the country. </p>

<p>MIT offers study groups, tutoring sessions, study sessions, TA help, faculty office hours, and private tutors, and I think most people would say that MIT students are smart. Almost all of the successful MIT students make use of these resources at some point in their college careers. </p>

<p>A few years ago, a current MIT student had a great post on CC about the importance of study groups at MIT. The gist of the post was that it was impossible for a student to succeed academically at MIT without the help and support of his or her peers. My daughters definitely concur. I wish I could find the post because it was a great read.</p>

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<p>mapesy, I don’t think you are being blunt, I think the same thing. I’ve been trying to get her to find resources for success as you are suggesting. She feels now that she dug herself in a hole and can’t climb out because the first tests were low. We’ve been over and over this again and again. She was very upset about the social things when the first tests came up. She wasn’t sleeping and had trouble concentrating. Hence why I begged her to go to counseling. Since then she has stopped obsessing about her social life and knows that she has to study and study hard. She says that she is sleeping better.</p>

<p>oldfort, we had that very conversation a couple of weeks ago. That she is the only one responsible for her happiness. I told her that she needed to put her big girl pants on and deal with things. Things were better until this week. </p>

<p>She is convinced that she is doomed to fail. But she’s told me that she just wants me to be supportive not to offer advice. I want to scream. She’s feeling sorry for herself because she’s convinced that this weekend will be very lonely because everyone will have parents there and no one will remember her birthday on Sun. Which I can’t do anything about.</p>

<p>I appreciate everyone’s advice. I am going to take a step back. I’ve told her that I don’t want her to be so negative and it was better. She is upset about her birthday and the fact that it’s on parents weekend and she doesn’t have parents there.</p>