What to do when your child feels like they are failing

Parents Forum
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<p>Your dd is convinced that the only answer to her problem is to switch schools. </p>

<p>This all-or-nothing thinking prevents her from seeing any other solution. She probably honestly believes that an advisor won’t help, that the tutoring center doesn’t exist, that the only way to see a counselor is to go to a group session, that it does no good to see a professor, etc. I’m guessing all of these things are not true. </p>

<p>She has somehow decided that every one else is smarter, and is doing well completely on their own. </p>

<p>This is a really difficult situation for you. I’m so sorry that she is dumping all this on you. I don’t have any great advice except for you to realize that although she’s not intentionally lying to you, she is communicating a reality that she sees that probably is very different than other students see. </p>

<p>I wish she could meet just one person who she is comfortable enough with to ask questions like “Do you study with other people sometimes?” “What would you do if you failed your first test?” If she talks to other students, she is going to hear lots of different strategies they use.</p>

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<p>Our D2 doesn’t have to have an advisor sign off on her schedule. She does, however, have to show it to her coaches who aren’t academic people! Each school is different.</p>

<p>Sending positive thoughts your way, deb!</p>

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<p>I ALWAYS had to have a PIN number to sign up for classes, which, of course, I had to get from my adviser (for both undergrad and grad school!) by first having a meeting with them to discuss the classes I would need/want to take for that semester and progress towards fulfilling my degree requirements. There was no way to sign up for classes without having that number.</p>

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<p>deb922 I would go get a bunch of silly/funny greeting cards. Mail one a day with a message of “we love you.” etc. Then let her calls go to your voice mail a little bit so that you are providing positive reinforcement without having to listen to all the negative.
I’ve tried this with difficult family members. It helped me to feel that I wasn’t cutting the person off but I wasn’t having their negativity affect my life.</p>

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<p>To help a family member who is under a lot of stress right now, I’ve been reading up on the concept of “negative self-talk”. Apparently (maybe this is news only to me), there are some robust and long-standing research results showing that negative self-talk actually increases stress. That is, it really matters how you frame things to yourself and others - what spin you put on things. This is common sense, but it’s also interesting to me that it has been studied.</p>

<p>To help the person in my family, I printed out an article about this from the Mayo Clinic web site. Then I started noticing out loud when I head a negative framing of something that could just as well have been framed in a neutral or positive way. I don’t do this constantly (that would certainly add to the stress levels all on its own). But I think it might be having some impact.</p>

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<p>Is this college the one that OP’s D longed to attend, or was she somehow talked into it by GCs, friends, family or? By the sound of her HS experience, she was not happy at that school either, yet her grades must have been excellent. Was she cajoled and prodded to do well in HS? With her history, I wonder if her current difficult school and her very rigorous major are entirely her idea? Does she have an investment in the goals and ambitions here? Or is she, now that the coursework is really demanding, finally rebelling?</p>

<p>If she has always wanted to be an engineer, a talk with her professors will help her a lot. They can reassure her, give her suggestions for studying, and point her in the direction of study groups, etc. If she is hasn’t got the commitment and determination to do these simple things to improve her situation, I wonder if she may be questioning her own goals.</p>

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<p>I agree with Calreader about the negative self-talk. This either a learned behavior or just part of her personality but it can have life-long consequences if she can’t learn to re-frame her thinking. I speak from personal experience and many years of therapy. :slight_smile: There is nothing wrong with having a feeling “I’m overwhelmed” but in order to get through it you need to learn to examine your beliefs and re-frame the thought.</p>

<p>There is an excellent book “Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy” by Dr. David Burns that teaches people how to do this.</p>

<p>The other thing to consider is you could be reinforcing her negativity by rewarding her with a lot attention when she is negative. Parents do this constantly. Child is fretting about something and then parent gets upset and tries to fix it or make child feel better. Being negative and venting becomes a technique for avoiding dealing with a problem. The person feels better after venting and often times does nothing to address the real issue.</p>

<p>At the most basic level, this is how children get into the habit of throwing tantrums. We’ve all been there. Theoretically, the most effective way of dealing with it is to say “when you have calmed down, we will discuss some steps you can take.” In practice, most of us just want them to stop having the tantrum, so we ‘give in’ to their demands or at best, we allow their actions to upset us and we are, in effect, reacting to their demands.</p>

<p>Given the physical distance, I would give her a time limit 'You have 5 minutes at the beginning of each conversation to vent, and then you must tell me some positive stuff" and also, set some boundaries, “We supported your choice to go to X college. If this is not working out for you, you need to do the research and present a proposal to us about how you can make the necessary changes (whether it be changing her major or transferring to another school.)” I won’t do any of the work for her. Let her take responsibility.</p>

<p>Acknowledge her feelings “I can tell you’re feeling very stressed” and then be positive, “What do you think you can do to address this?” In other words, be supportive but make it her problem. </p>

<p>I also agree with the others. There are certain majors that are very stressful and ME is definitely one of them. Nothing wrong with changing majors if it’s not working out for her. Many students either haven’t decided on their major going into college or they change it once they are there.</p>

<p>Hang in there. I suspect she is having a tough academic year and it’s overwhelming her. With any luck, it will get better.</p>

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<p>MomLive, excellent post! Thank you.</p>

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<p>Today is her birthday and she was so unpleasant yesterday I texted her happy birthday and that’s it. I told her yesterday that if she wanted to transfer she had to figure out housing and loans to pay for it. I would forward her FAFSA but that was all I was going to do.</p>

<p>I think that 50isthenew40 got how she is feeling just perfect. I will try MomLive’s advice the next time I talk to her. At this moment I am concentrating on the fact that she must drop the class and she can’t drop the ball on it and fail. I’m hoping she will come through on this.</p>

<p>I’m trying to keep my distance from her for the moment and let her deal with her issues.</p>

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<p>Great thread! (although I’m sorry it is a tough road for deb and daughter).</p>

<p>I’m not quite sure what “negative self-talk” entails, but I do know students (and adults), that always share the negative possibilities. If things don’t go well, it is as if they prepared themselves and others for the worst. But when things go well (and they often do), they are both delighted and relieved. Is she “sure” she is failing, or just preparing herself (and you), in case it happens? </p>

<p>If she truly is failing, I knew another student in a similar situation. Her father suggested she consider her options in business terms: “Cut your losses” was his advice. I thought that was a great approach. It gave no hint of “failure”, but rather of a wise business solution.</p>

<p>Let us know how things turn out.</p>

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<p>Deb, I think giving yourself alittle space as well as your daughter some time for introspection is a good idea. Dropping a class is not the end of the world. My instant reaction was “oh my” when my son dropped one he was doing dismally in and then I applied the duct tape. Sophomore year my oldest dropped a math class. He waffled about trying to get tutoring, study groups, etc, but realized he just couldn’t muster it up. He signed up for it the next semester but he knew going in it then was going to require alot more effort than he had mentally “allotted” during fall semester. Second time he came out of it with a B+ which he was thrilled with. Kids do need to “figure” out this stuff for themselves. We can’t pilot their lives after a certain point, those balance issues in their courses and out of class time they need to figure out. And how often have we all had something go wrong and it feels like everything goes wrong…she does need to find her advisor though :slight_smile: even if she’s at a huge school.</p>

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<p>And just to relate my oh-so-sympathetic personal tale from 150 years ago when I was an undergraduate, I transferred from Arts & Sciences into Engineering at my State Flagship U. The first couple of semesters when we had to take all those core courses really did kick my hiney. Come time for a specific major, I decided on electrical but realized half-way through the first semester that I hated it. Dropped out for the rest of that year and came back to the major I should have been in all along (applied math–that and CS were the least engineering-y of the engineering majors).</p>

<p>I don’t know if your DD is your oldest, but you must be aware they tend to be drama queens, right? And that they tend to dump on mom, right? I still get the rantings from my DS#1 who sounds about ready to quit school to me but 24 hours later sounds absolutely “life is great!” to his dad.</p>

<p>And re: the social scene for women in e-schools, I made a few <em>very</em> good female friends there (I believe there is a natural bonding between smart, technical women), but also had many many male friends. There is a plus side for her–I bet half the guys in every one of her classes has a crush on her.</p>

<p>In summary, I would try a bit more “hang in there, honey” and focus on letting her dump on you but not necessarily try to solve her problems for her.</p>

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<p>Rather than psychiatry, I would suggest a good cognitive behavioral therapist (can be an MSW or psychologist) to help with the negative thinking and self-sabotage. </p>

<p>I would truly believe that your daughter is deeply lonely: it is not uncommon, and is very painful and real. The experience can be “framed” as training for the future, because this is not the last time that our kids will find themselves relatively alone in a new situation, under stress. But it sure is hard.</p>

<p>Many, many college kids are on medication to help them through this. We were surprised that maybe 30-50% of kids were on antidepressants at our kid’s colleges. Many drink a lot and blot it out.</p>

<p>Her birthday is past now, but I actually would have tried to go out. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that kind of support- but I know that the financial aspect of that was hard. If you can ever be present on campus, you could check out what the situation really is, and even see what resources are there (although of course it would be her job to go to them). </p>

<p>I would get away from blaming her and being angry. It is hard not to, and I have done the same. The whole college thing is really really hard. I had to do some stuff myself to maintain detachment (I talked to someone, took Tai Chi, etc.) but I tried (emphasis on “tried”) to come back to my kids with a sort of firm love with boundaries, not anger. Certainly didn’t do a great job with that goal at all times, but in theory, I think it is good to be supportive but not a crutch. Training wheels but not the bike. Sorry for the trite images, but they help me.</p>

<p>I don’t agree with your husband’s attitude at all, but I don’t know him! It seems as if he is affecting you, and you have to deal with placating him while also helping your daughter. Again, talking to a counselor yourself (just a few times, no big deal) might help.</p>

<p>And maybe your daughter would like to change majors?</p>

<p>Maybe you could tell her that changing schools at two years is a good breaking point, and that she could apply as a transfer in the spring if she still feels this way. She is an adult, and you an treat her like one by respecting that wish to change schools if it really is consistent and continuous for the next few months.</p>

<p>It really is bizarre that our culture expects the kids to go off to a new place, live in a dorm room, take classes, and build a life, away from all their previous connections and supports. Keeping a bridge up to the old connections while building the new ones can be really really helpful to some, and moms are often that bridge. When they are safely on the other side, they can dismantle the bridge. I truly feel it is better that they dismantle it, not us.</p>

<p>Good luck, and solidarity!</p>

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<p>Learning to be comfortable doing things alone would help your daughter a lot. And it is a life skill. I know someone who married their college honey and is now getting divorced 40 years later… and part of what’s making her miserable is that she won’t eat dinner out alone, won’t travel alone, hates to drive alone, and in general is unhappy when alone. She’s never been alone.</p>

<p>SWE is an enormous help to women who are studying engineering. Your daughter should understand that many of the people who are active in SWE will show up alone. She also needs to learn the crucial lesson that <em>asking</em> is always easier than waiting to be <em>asked</em>. If she doesn’t want to go alone, she can ask someone in her classes if they want to go with her… because they may be thinking the same thing.</p>

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<p>We were getting panicky phone calls from our kid a month or so ago, stating he “couldn’t do it” and had totally bombed his mid-term and was going to flunk the class. We talked through some options with him, including going to the professor’s and TA’s office hours, getting a tutor, or dropping the class. He started going to office hours and got into a tutoring group (because a personal tutor was not available for the class), but adamently refused to consider dropping the class. He finally admitted that the mid-term test he bombed was only worth 10 PERCENT of the grade for that classs!</p>

<p>Deb, any possibility that D isn’t being upfront with you about the curve for the tests she’s taken or how much of the final grade they represent?</p>

<p>I would (and did) help brainstorm some options for assistance (as it sounds like you did); encourage the kid to do his/her best; and reassure her/him that the world will not end if the kid gets a crummy grade or flunks the class. Because it won’t.</p>

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<p>Yeah, I still get the “I’m pretty sure I did really poorly on that test,” comments from our senior year ME son. He believes it, too. The reality: suffice it to say that his GPA is above a B by a very comfortable margin.</p>

<p>Does he then call to say, “Hey, I was wrong! I did fine!” </p>

<p>Nope.</p>

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<p>I have two kids each at different college’s. My d who is a freshman tells me all the time that she is the stupidest person at her college (it’s a large selective public university). Of course, I tell her I’m sure that’s not the case. Last week I ran into a parent of another girl at the same school. She tells me “my daughter tells me she is the dumbest person there”. Now my d and this girl see each other all the time and I guarantee neither have ever shared that feeling with the other. My point is that kids may sometimes feel that way and I guess it is our job to reassure. When my d struggled earlier this semester we suggested tutoring and she was very hesitate but it has made all the difference in the world. Also she did a pretty good job of networking with other students to find out what works for them. It’s not easy, but I think they all feel overwhelmed at times. One thing I can say for sure though is sometimes they call us NOT for any answers but just for a sounding board. I’m learning not to always offer solutions. This is hard for me as I am a “fixer” at heart, but I’m learning…</p>

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<p>My H helped me with the not-offering-solutions thing. He pointed out that our D often does not make a direct request for help. Once he pointed this out, I began to notice how often I offered help or solutions when she hadn’t actually asked for any, but was just complaining. It had become a habit for both of us- she complains, I suggest. Now I try and wait patiently for any “what do you think I should do” type questions before I offer my advice, and lo and behold, she rarely asks. A real eye-opener for me on how often I rush in when I don’t need to.</p>

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<p>Thanks to everyone who has commented on this situation. I can’t tell you how much each and every one of your comments has helped me.</p>

<p>I’ve been out of town for a couple of days. I visited some of my best friends and people who I could talk to about this and who have been where I am now. I am feeling so much calmer and relaxed, it was such a good decision.</p>

<p>It was a rough weekend but I think that things have calmed down some. She really wanted to leave school at the semester’s end and transfer. I called and emailed her and told her my reasons for her to stay at her present school. I told her that transferring now is a knee jerk reaction and that she needed to have more time to consider her options. She needed to think if changing her major might help, if she still wants to transfer she should apply to more schools and have more options. And the school she wanted to transfer to was maybe not the best choice for her. She agreed with me and is not going to leave after the semester. She can consider transferring after this year.</p>

<p>I also told her that she cannot keep texting me with every complaint. That it was not good and that she needs to let some things go. She cannot get upset at every single perceived slight to her. </p>

<p>We also talked about options for her socially. She needs to consider that some people you are friends with are not your friends and you need to find new people. Both of my kids have problems with that. Sometimes people are jerks. That it is hard to find new friends but it happens eventually. You may be lonely in the transition but it will work out. </p>

<p>I think that she has a couple of problems that are affecting things. One is the dorm. The particular dorm is nice but not friendly and a single is isolating. I tried to get her to change dorms but she says that a couple of friends from last year are moving in and that might help. She needs to reach out to people and not wait for them to approach her. I decided to go to my doctor and get a recommendation for a counselor. I will try to set up appointments over Christmas break. I will try to get my D and the counselor to try to set up some coping solutions so that when she goes back to school she will know how to react to the stress of school. I hope it works, my H is in complete agreement and my friends thought it was a good idea.</p>

<p>compmom, you interpreted things right. I don’t agree with my H’s attitude and I am walking a very fine line between the two. It’s very hard on me and the whole family dynamic. He has his reasons, I don’t agree but I love the D even though she’s a little difficult. She’s my second child but has a brother who is honestly the easiest and most laid back child who really doesn’t cause any problems.</p>

<p>She was not able to withdraw from the class that is giving her problems. She can take the class over and the new grade will replace the old one. She won’t be the first engineering student to fail a class. Personally I am hoping that she is overstating things and that she can pull out a C. I have a hard time believing all the gloom and doom since she has a tendency to be melodramatic about things.</p>

<p>Also, for a person who has no friends and no life her birthday was not as terrible as she would like me to believe. A ton of kids posted on her facebook. Some of the “terrible” friends came over to her dorm to wish her happy birthday and friends took her out of dinner on Friday and Sunday. I think that she has unrealistic expectations for her birthday. As us old people know, they do not declare a national holiday on your birthday. Some of the time, it’s just a normal day.</p>

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<p>Good job!! I think it’s OK for husbands and wives to have a different opinion and approach to the kids, but since the age 2 on kids do know which one to go to in order to elicit the response they desire. Setting a few boundaries around those activities is just fine and I think you did a great job stepping back for a few days to sort it all out. My friends had a similar issue with one of theirs and they “switched” roles to initiate some behavior changes. It was very interesting and amusing to watch. The kid was abit startled like a deer caught in the headlights but it was just the jump started needed to reset the relationship and the kid’s behavior.</p>