@ucbalumnus Yes I have actually, although admittedly my pool of minority friends is small. My D16 has asked (3) of her close friends, she only felt comfortable discussing it with her closer friends and they have all said they didn’t feel like there are any racial tensions and that overall grading was fair but they said they might not be the best judge of fair grading because they are all AP/Honors students. One girl said that her personal experience with this particular guy is that he is a “tool”. I have spoken with (2) moms one said “no” issues, one said “sometimes”.
I am about to spend the weekend with some cheer moms, we have (3) black cheerleaders on our 24 member cheer squad and I plan on discussing it with them too. I was waiting to post an update until I had spoken with them.
Honestly, I suspect that there are some tensions within the school that are definitely economic in nature and there flat out are tensions between conservative Christians/republican/tea party and liberal non Christian/democrats. Both of my kids have faced a wall of intolerance when they have expressed a support of gay rights, abortion rights and President Obama. In fact, D16 just started her semester of AP US Government and with the upcoming elections I am anticipating her coming home with tales of being outnumbered regarding her political stands.
Hmmm, looks like more information is needed to make sure that you are not going to inadvertently spray gasoline onto a smoldering fire… though the SES tensions and the political tensions could get whipped up into racial tensions if someone tries to incite them.
Just my humble thoughts.
Can this be viewed without needing to divide along racial lines?? (Yes, it can, even though he’s Black, she’s White, and he made a crack about that.)
She doesn’t fight fire with gasoline (“I get “A(s)” because I am not stupid and I do the work, idiot.” I doubt he’ll answer, “Thanks, I hadn’t realized.”) I agree this goes to the teacher first, she speaks with him, asks for him to control some of the biting and unnecessary comments directed at her. Whether or not she feels this is bullying, the teacher is supposed to be the first point of control.
Other options: ignore it or move her seat.
I suppose that will all sound too simplistic to some. But what do we really think zingers will accomplish? Apologies to anyone who doesn’t like this answer.
My older once mouthed off at some low life types. There was nothing to be accomplished by that. (Except, I guess, the same sort of aggression that bothers one in the first place.)
And I do love a good zinger, but right place, right time.
@lookingforward I agree, humanize yourself and stop being an entity in the room but instead a person.
Tell her to be nice, sometimes it’s easy to make hurtful comments if you don’t feel like the person is really more than a name or figure. Once the “victim” makes a personal connection the comments will stop or move to someone or something else.
Easiest thing to do is try and befriend them. Fire with fire is never a good thing, especially when it’ll just alienate you from the rest of the class.
Taking race out of it for a minute, my advice would be not to let the kid know that the words he’s using bother her-bullies watch to see what bothers you, then drive the stick in deeper. I’ve responded to bullying with dismissive humor, and it usually works, and the girls use it too.
In this case, you know the kid is sensitive about his academic ability-so I’d have her mention to him privately that she’s happy to start calling him dunce every time he calls her white girl, if that’s how he wants to play it. It’s a warning shot that doesn’t publicly humiliate him and force him to save face and escalate. There is leverage here; don’t be afraid to use it.
I’ve always advised my daughters to be a “hard target”, in other words, it’s not worth picking on them because of the repercussions-mess with them and they humiliate you, get you in trouble, or just generally make it not worth it to pick on them.
FWIW, my reputation in their school is “oh, don’t make that mom mad, she’s terrifying”. That works for me.
@MotherOfDragons The thing is, it’s not direct bullying. It’s making an excuse and using her as an object.
His sole purpose isn’t to hurt her, which is what bullying is, but instead to say something to say something.
She is not being bullied directly or at all, she is simply in crossfire and is used as an aid to his thoughts.
People, stop telling her to fight it with a confrontation, it won’t work. I left my old school because of that and it just gets worse. Trust me, I was there and alienated from my school for standing up to myself in a confrontation. It’s easier to extend an olive branch and be nice to them, it’ll also go further.
If your boss made snide remarks would you call him an as$hat for being rude? No, you would find a better solution.
Threatening him with calling him a dunce will cause him to actually target her. There is nothing worse than what your daughter will face if she attacks him or confronts him. Then she will actually become a target and if he’s a varsity, popular type kid…your daughter will have rumors spread about her and her reputation will be tarnished among the athletes and popular girls.
Think about all the backlash there is if you confront someone who has power, then think about the troubles that go with it.
DON’T CONFRONT HIM, your daughter is not being directly attacked so it’s not true bullying. It is indirect and just rude, but not targeted bullying. If you want targeted bullying, then confront him. Then she will have real problems…
sounds like high school bullying with a racist overtone. I would advise she stay focused on her work and not engage the bully! when I was in high school I was a very good kid but not a great student. my best friend in the school would go to AP classes and the kids in his classes would talk about which IVY school they wanted to go to. the classes I went to …people joked about which community college they would go to based on if they got a D or F on a test. (high 5’s and pats on the back for each other for d and f’s) my friend and his classmates would freak out if they got a B! my friend and I were divided sometimes by one or two classrooms but we were in different worlds in the same school. I would at the very least guide her back towards her comfort zone AP,honors classes etc…and when she graduates and goes off to college the bully/s will be distant memories. stay focused on the future not a jerk or two in class!(sounds cheesy but it is true)
This is ridiculous.
This is bullying.
This is racist bullying.
The kid is not responsible for de-escalating the mood in the room. The kid is not obligated to put forth an olive branch to assuage the raw feelings of inconsequential standing of another student in the room.
Adults see the poking and pricking of one student by another (or, in this case, others) and too often wait for things to just get better, or make excuses that the rough and tumble or rude kid will move on and the targeted kid will be none the worse for wear. Adults see this, knowing what it is when they see it, and turn away because they lived through it.
This young girl doesn’t have to tutor, reach out, smile or snap back at the other kid. The other kid needs to be made - to be made - to get his butt in gear and straighten up.
Where did labegg express that there has been a noted action, a deliberate, determined discriminatory movement by her child that could be seen as something which requires that the kid ‘check her privilege’? Labegg made the ‘check’ statement, but I swear it seems peer-pressured here, and out of order.
If lab’s daughter walks in the room wanting an environment where the students give full attention and energy to the lesson and instruction, she is an exemplar of what could be present in the room. She is not a distraction or the problem.
She does not have to dim her light to make someone else feel good.
The solution lies in calling this what it is, facing it, stopping all the eggshell-walking-around and calling these other kids to the carpet.
I think it’s bullying. Direct or indirect, masked in humor, whatever. He’s picking on her, and she wants it to stop.
I’m not talking about standing up for yourself, which is defensive. I’m talking about going on the offensive. You want to call me white girl? That’s fine; but your new name is dunce. Let’s play that game, or let’s play the game where we’re cool and if you need help on something I’d be glad to help but no more stupid names.
This kid is not her boss; he’s her peer. They are EQUAL.
I’ve had bad bosses, also. I don’t call them names; I get them written up and I get them fired when they cross the line. That’s how you roll.
@SeniorStruggling I’ve also dealt with bullying and serious teasing in high school. This is how I stopped it. Most kids don’t want a battle, and if you show you’re willing to battle, they back off. But you have to be willing to do it and not be afraid.
@MotherOfDragons You have been lucky enough to have bosses that are not part of a corrupted relationship with their superiors.
How easy is it for everyone to tell her to fight back. That will only alienate her and cause more grief. I have given my warning and now it is left for op to decide.
I was bullied and kids were suspended for a week or two because of it. That just alienated me and I ended up leaving school because it was much worse to stay where it was obvious I wasn’t wanted.
If he is an athlete he is an a position of power, athletes rule the social hierarchy. It is a fact, and they are the popular ones.
Where will the path of confrontation and getting the kid in trouble end? His friends will then tease her and mock her, then what? Get them suspended too? or in trouble? Then their friends do the same and you end up starting a chain reaction because you didn’t try to be diplomatic in the first place. This is how it will go down with confrontation, and if it keeps escalating she will soon be the most targeted student in the school.
None of you parents lived in a social media age, and none of you know how dysfunctional disciplinary systems are in schools. I am in high school and i know firsthand where it will lead as it happened to me.
Parents who grew up in a time without twitter and facebook and instagram need to stop encouraging her to throw gasoline into a fire, instead you need to listen to age old advice, “an eye for an eye leaves the world blind”
Stop encouraging something that will be 100% detrimental.
Don’t know where labegg lives, but escalation along racial lines, or affinity groups, is not always the result of taking issues to those in authority, even in today’s environment of facebook and instagram.
I will admit, you kids have elevated things to a new level of I-think-YOU-think-you’re-better-than-me so I’ll ruin your life. But it does not always go that way.
I bring up where the OP lives, because of course the socioeconomics and the community come into play in instances like this. The environment influences the execution of the process of investigation, resolution, penalty or punishment (let’s call it outcomes, though).
I’ve got way too many stories in this arena, but some start from my own childhood and were intra-racial, so along literal skin color lines, and some are the result of what has transpired in my parenting life concerning my kids.
While I like the pushback of MotherofDragons, and the zinger action of Mathmom, I favor taking it up the line.
No one is asking what the reach out to labegg’s kid could (or should) be by the jerks in the class, a reach-out likely to dispel any myths or unfounded backstory built up by the others about lab’s kid. She is a person, too.
Going on the offensive is not the only choice. It escalates.
That’s what going on the offensive is all about: “Yeah, you think you’re tough, well I’m tougher.” Some are talking of put-downs. “Yeah, I study and well you’re an idiot.” C’mon, it can be really satisfying to come up with a good retort, but few situations call for that.
If anyone thinks it’s bullying, then take it up a level (teacher,) not take it up a notch in threat.
I’m not projecting what repercussions there could be, just saying she has options beyond also becoming verbally aggressive.
Do we really teach our kids that going nose to nose is the only choice? He said something, so I intimidated him even better? He called me a White girl so I called him a dunce? This risks sounding very lower school.
Defeating bullies means fighting back and winning. As you found out, fighting back does no good if you do not win. Obviously, if the bully has plenty of allies, fighting back will not work until you have more powerful allies (e.g. teachers or other school staff). Being nice to bullies typically won’t stop the bullying either.
(Yes, this means that if teachers and other school staff are unwilling or unable to stop bullying, they should not be surprised if students form gangs to protect themselves.)
@ucbalumnus we are not talking about direct bullying where she is targeted and the sole mission is to hurt her. We are talking about indirect problems. The only thing that a confrontation will do is win her a war and lose the war.
The other student is an obvious majority if he is part of a varsity sport.
Defeating bullies is fighting back, ending indirect harassment is making an effort to humanize yourself and take away the reasons for their ignorant statements.
I would fight back if the diplomatic response doesn’t work, but no reason to drop a nuke on a minor problem.
To be wise is to seek peace as a first option. If that doesn’t work then fighting back is the only option. Conflict resolution should always be the first approach, conflict should always be a last resort.
Look at any world conflicts, and look at the conflicts avoided. You are basically encouraging the USA to nuke the USSR because of Cuba. You are saying all that matters is the outcome, when in fact there is the same outcome with a preferable journey.
It takes a better person to be the bigger person, stop encouraging the low road and trying to encourage a violent(not physically i hope) battle, when there can easily be a diplomatic response.
What you did was the right choice for you, but here’s another option. My 15 yo D is in a robotics group that’s all male except for her. Last year several of the boys were hazing her, calling her a stupid girl. One said to her “I hate you so much I want to punch you in the face.” She said “go ahead”.
And he did. Right in the face. She went directly to the teacher, who immediately called the vice principal, who called me.
Without giving too much information away, the kid was written up for disciplinary action and placed in mandatory counseling. Since he did not draw blood or damage my daughter physically, I didn’t call the police. He was lucky.
She did not cry when she got punched, she calmly got up and went to the teacher, even though she was stunned. She stayed with the group (the other kid was kicked off the team), and the other kids knew better than to mention it and the hazing disappeared, and she’s still a member today. This year the teacher asked her if the other kid could be allowed back in the group (although not on her team) and she graciously said yes.
The working relationship between the groups is cordial, for the most part. They don’t really like each other a ton, but they do respect each other. Sometimes you have to go through a ton of junk like this to get respect. I am not condoning getting punched in the face (gah, it was horrible), but how you react to bullying is crucial.
Each person has to decide whether they want to run, capitulate, or battle. There’s no one right answer.
Diplomacy in international relations occurs in the backdrop of the threat of force and the winning of hearts and minds of allies and potential allies. The diplomacy around the Cuban Missile Crisis involved the threat of force on both sides. Weakness has little or no diplomatic power.
Why would you think that dealing with schoolyard bullies is any different? The OP’s daughter needs to evaluate the situation and determine whether she has useful powerful allies (particularly teachers and school staff) and whether he has powerful allies to determine what her next move is. Fighting back does not necessarily mean going up to the bully and punching him, but it could mean getting useful powerful allies to stop his bullying.
@MotherOfDragons The difference there is it was my whole team, not just 1-2 people.
I could have bit my tongue and appeased them and we could all be friends, but I was abrasive like what everyone is condoning and it led to much worse.
No one hit me, but clothes ended up in toilets and similar things. The kids were smart enough to stick together and lie when it was taken up, basically 1 vs 11 doesn’t end well for the 1.
I happily dealt with the repricussions and left after having been the mvp and leader in my district. They took my happiness, I walked away with their district title.
I understand sometimes you can only fight, but it is much better to appease them. Especially when they aren’t trying to harm you but instead using you as an extra in their stupid slurs.
Wow @MotherOfDragons that is such an awful awful thing to have happened to your D.
As I have said, D16 says she does not “feel” bullied, none of the animosity has extended beyond the classroom. Really he just seems to be “using” her, which is more harassment than bullying. I think in the end she will keep her mouth shut and hopefully the sarcastic remarks that go floating through her head will stay in her head an not come tumbling out of her mouth.
The best advice has been for her to “humanize” herself. I think that is what the teacher was trying to do by bringing up the LAX. It definitely seems like this athlete doesn’t “see” her as an actual person. There are just 4 more months of school and these comments are not so pervasive that she is uncomfortable in the class. She simply was questioning when does she speak up, how does she speak up and what to do in the future to prevent this from happening again. She has said that the next time he “uses” her as his scapegoat she is going to respond with “Dude?!”. Keeping entirely silent just gives him permission to keep using her.