When to pull financial plug on son? Doesn't care about his T50 college, he's just sort of...there.

Parent Cafe
181

I agree.

@JGmom20 We have a lot of kids, 5 are adults and one is a high school sr. They all have very different personalities. Some of them are incredibly driven and that internal motivation is evident in all aspects of their lives. But, some of them aren’t. They lack that high internal drive. They also have different goals than their highly motivated siblings.

There is absolutely nothing I can do to make my driven kids less intense. Nor can I morph my less motivated kids into their siblings. They are who they are. Once they hit their upper teens, we are frank with them about careers, $$, and long-term prospects. It is completely up to them to take ownership over their own futures. Their futures; not ours.

So, we have kids who have attended college on their U’s highest competitive scholarship and gone on to a top grad program having graduated from UG with their U’s top distinguised honors. Equally, we have had one attend a CC and one that only wants to commute from home to the local U.

We have 1 adult child who we pulled from college (not for grades; he had a 3.8 GPA. We stopped paying bc refused to take the courses required for the degree. He is autistic (with a sky high IQ) and thought the degree requirements were stupid and wouldn’t comply with them. We weren’t going to fund college without a degree. We warned him. He said no. So, there you go.) He decided last year that he wanted to go back and then he ended up dropping out again b/c he decided he didn’t want that degree after all. We can’t make him want what he is unwilling to do. So, he works as a severely underemployed individual. His choice.

Different paths for different kids. Any guilt for different outcomes for our kids? None whatsoever. Kids are different. Goals are different. Needs are different.

What any poster on CC shares as what they think you should do is irrelevant. Your family needs to figure out how to handle the situation in a way that helps your ds move forward toward his adulthood. Not the one that you wish for him b/c we can’t make them fit into our image of what we want for them. It is whatever adulthood he is ready and willing to take responsibility for for himself. And, yes, if you want to restrict funding, that is your perogative.

182

Having read this entire thread again, your anger toward your son, and disappointment in him, is palpable. While I understand you would prefer your son were not a C student, maybe that C is the best he has? There’s nothing wrong with that. My sister was a C student her entire life, academically and in the workplace - but in life, my sister is an A+.

Your description of your disappointment and anger toward your son is not healthy for either of you. If you truly believe he is a lazy, lying, visionless slacker, give him 90 days notice that you are cutting him off (financially or otherwise); be honest with him and tell him everything that you have told us. Clear the air and let the chips fall where they do, and be prepared for whatever the aftermath is.

Your son may or may not shape-up to conform to your ideals; either way, it seems you would both be better off without each other, at least for a short time.

183

MODERATOR’S NOTE:
There is a certain level of back biting going on amongst users that needs to stop. Users are free to share their opinions without being constantly challenged by members other than the OP. If the OP wants a clarification, let him/her ask for it, But the stating the obvious “you don;t know the whole story” is not helpful to the OP. Nobody knows the whole story, we only know what the OP has chosen to share.

Having said that, the OP does not seem to be showing open-to-listen, and many requests for additional information have gone unanswered. If the thread continues to go in circles, I will assume that the OP has received enough advice and lock the thread.

184

“Are you suggesting had we been hands off (zero “plowing”), let him be a slacker C student in high school, let him bomb his SAT, no tutors, and let him inevitably drift around the house after high school was somehow a better alternative? A cheaper alternative, but I’m not sure it’s any better.”

As I posted before, sink or swim is a great plan and easy to follow. Unless you have a sinker…

Just talk to your kid and see what he thinks about what is going on.

For some kids, limping through and getting a C-grade degree in four years would be an accomplishment to be celebrated more than some other kid’s Rhodes scholarship. For other kids, the limp through path should clearly draw a big swift dose of tough love.

But manage for the long term. Do what you think best in order to (i) set your kid up best for being a mature self-sufficient adult and (ii) have a good relationship with the kid.

But once you;ve been able to rule out LDs, substance abuse, depression and other mental health concerns, my vote is for some tough love. Just make sure it is calm, fair and reasonable tough love.

Good luck.

185

Seems like the kind of student that Evergreen State would be for (BA requires 180 quarter credit units (= 120 semester credit units), with no major or general education requirements), if it were affordable.

186

So, to sum up the last 10 pages, the OP’s son is a slovenly, disheveled, stubborn, ungrateful, childish, visionless, unmotivated, unprofessional, delusional, gross, embarrassing, pathological, immature, lying slacker who apparently does not have a SINGLE positive or lovable trait and who is shockingly unappreciative of all the effort and sacrifices the OP has made to mold him into exactly the person she wants him to be, and now that he’s at college where she can no longer micromanage and control him 24/7, she wants to know how she can use financial leverage to force him to become the bare minimum of what she considers an acceptable human being, while rejecting 170+ helpful posts because they don’t give her the answers she wants.

And as awful as that litany of adjectives is, I think the saddest post was the one where she implied his friends wouldn’t like him if they knew his GPA, and that once they graduate they’ll stop speaking to him because he’s a slacker who “can’t keep up.” Like she can’t imagine that anyone could possibly like her son for who he is, or value his friendship, since she herself does not see anything of value in him. :frowning:

187

Ultimately it will be up to the young man in question to turn his life around. It is sad that he seems to waste the gift of a funded college education; there are so many kids, including some on CC, who desperately need that and would benefit greatly.

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188

Just caught up on several pages. Your anger at your son’s lying and apparent refusal to do anything to improve his performance also sticks out to me and appears to override all else. It would drive me bonkers, and frankly I could hardly imagine that level of deceit from one of my kids. Perhaps you are mad enough to set him free in the world, you sound very close.

I’d figure out what he needs to do so you can tolerate continuing to sacrifice to keep him at sporty U, and what you are willing to do for him if he doesn’t.

I would communicate that to him.

I would consider how you will be affected as it plays out and if you could benefit from some support, get it for yourself.

I also have location on my college kids and know a ton of parents who still do. Thankfully I use it mostly to check they made it home from wherever, and at the risk of sounding melodramatic, to make sure my medically tricky one made it through the night and out of the dorm in the morning. It helps me feel less anxious. Your use is making you more angry. Now you know that your son lies about his actions and locations. I’d try to step away and let him figure out the small details of how he will meet your goals, and you just focus on that measurement point in the future. And perhaps prepare yourself for his failure and what will happen then.

Good luck!

189

@Corraleno post #185 - a perfect summation and omg, so, so sad. There is absolutely no way that this kid does not know the parent’s view, and we know often kids underperform because they don’t believe in themselves. I do wonder if the other parent is on the scene and if so what part he is playing in all this.

@roycroftmom - what is a “wasted” college education? Sounds like he’s on track to get a degree, even if it’s not as spectacular a route as OP wants. Speculation that others might take better advantage of the same resources is no basis to judge this particular child, there are many thousands of kids out there who’d be in trouble if that was the yardstick. OP still has not answered whether he was told all these myriad conditions, from gpa to haircuts, upfront.

190

I’ve been reading these posts over and over before deciding to comment.

I have 5 children. My middle son, now 25, is far and away the “smartest.” IQ of 139, etc., etc. Unfortunately, this child was afflicted with ODD and anxiety and never achieved to his full potential. He did take all honors and AP classes (except in English, which he didn’t believe should be an actual school subject) but would do things like get a 5 on the AP euro exam but a C+ in the class. The best example was that he got a 5 on AP Calc BC exam but failed the class; he said he already had his math credits and didn’t need to pass, plus his teacher was terrible and he didn’t want to make the teacher look good!

On the positive side, he’s an Eagle Scout who is well-respected by his peers, he’s a blood donor on a regular basis, he’s polite, interested in current events and willing to help around the house where, yes, he still lives, along with his 29 and 23-year-old brothers.

He took a gap year after HS and then went to a SUNY school. He had so little interest in the process that he just applied to the school where his sister attended. He initially did very well there, had friends and was even elected to student government. Then, something happened. We think he might have tried pot for the first time and that it was tainted and he had an episode of something. We only know because I received a hospital bill and then requested the records. He didn’t tell us for months. Anyway, he began doing poorly in school after that, refused to speak to his suitemates anymore (at least the 2 he believed were involved and the 2 that he thought knew about it) and after a couple of semesters, we pulled him out on a medical leave.

Twice after that, he tried online classes, all of which he either failed or withdrew from.

It’s now 3 years later. He has been in and out of counseling, currently out. I have toyed with tough love, but he is so emotionally fragile and he is also the type that might completely cut ties with the rest of us and that would kill me. The positives are that he is now working one day (actually, night) a week as a security guard, he still hangs out with many of his HS friends (most of them are from scouting), he still donates blood and volunteers regularly and he doesn’t drink, smoke, vape or do drugs. The other day, he asked if I would buy him some new clothing. He hasn’t accepted an offer of new clothing, other than sneakers and underwear, in several years. I know that some people think he is a lazy, slovenly (though he can’t grow a beard, so he doesn’t have facial hair) loser and in my worst moments, I agree, but he’s my son and I adore him. I see that he is suffering, even if he won’t acknowledge or act on it.

The message I want to send to the OP is that, you should draw your line in the sand over how much you will pay. I did and I told my son that he has two younger siblings and I had to send them to school, too. BUT, please consider that your son may be struggling with mental and/or emotional issues and he needs your support. When I want to rant about my son, I do it to myself. I did go to counseling for awhile but stopped when I felt I had reached all I could from it; however, my H still goes weekly. I also want to say that I have seen enormous progress in my son since he turned 25 over the summer. As I said, he is working one day a week, it’s a start. He’s talking about going back to school, he’s smiling more. I shudder to think what would have happened if I had belittled him and thrown him out of the house. Pulling him out of school - absolutely, that’s a privilege and if a child abuses it, for whatever reason, pull the financial plug on that. Please don’t think of a child as only the sum of their negatives, though. OP - take today to think of one good thing about your son and smile. Tomorrow, think of another good thing and grin.

Good luck.

191

College is no place for a child. It is not a fancy summer camp; it is an opportunity for young adults to grow intellectually, explore career options, hone their social skills. It seems the man in question is doing none of that. The parents offered the opportunity, but can’t force him to utilize it. If he has a 2.0 GPA so far in introductory courses, I would doubt he will obtain a degree when faced with harder upper level courses.

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192

It’s too easy to just dictate how a kid should approach college or the support is gone. One thing we should have sensed, from our CC experiences, is that each kid out there is different, a different history, relationships, experiences, strengths and weaknesses. On CC, we tend to lump kids, but the truth is, they’re individuals, as are we.

I like @Corraleno’s post. And techmom’s. Our job is not just to get them to some performance bar (or prestigious job or salary,) but to instill the strengths to tackle the decisions and challenges, into young adulthood and then beyond.

I disagree that we should always draw a firm line, just on principle. Just on cost. If we endorse the idea of further education, we have to accept the nature of it- it’s learning in many forms (academic, social, personal) and there will be mistakes, courses you can’t master, false starts, friend problems, and more. Not every kid is a smoothly running machine, all the time.

Here, we have a case of parents who willingly pushed and prodded through hs. OP says this was for the best, but I think she missed that they were doing for him, forming a dependent relationship, not building independent strengths. I do hold OP responsible for that. (Just as I hold my brother accountable for the indulgences that caused issues with his kids- though he clearly loves them and is supportive.)

OP needs to understand the parents’ role in all this. We’re never blameless, we make mistakes. The question is, can we admit our own faults and try to regroup? Or is winning at any price the only value?

Not just lay down the law, better grades or you’re out.
Though I DO think, based on the OP’s words here, the kid may be better off leaving this toxic situation.

193

For most parents, resources are finite. So yes, we draw lines on cost our entire lives, @lookingforward. Education may be priceless but there is a limit to what we can actually afford. Whether this is a worthwhile expenditure for OP at this point is for her to figure out.

194

Also, the fact some families can set a gpa bar works because they did a good job of preparing their kids for the next step in life, college. I don’t think it applies here- not when OP describes shaping this kid to get into a T50 college, providing all the supports, but apparently just the superficials.

I don’t see a one size fits all solution, not that they simply demand better grades because they’re paying. But now the kid doesn’t have mom and dad waking him up, ensuring the work is done, buying tutors and other interventions. In ways, they left him unprepared. Those of you who could set the gpa bar weren’t sending your kids off to college unprepared.

As for depression, maybe. Any kid can be depresed when things are toxic. They can avoid stress by playing, end conversations by saying they’ll look at counseling or academic support, and then not following through. That doesn’t mean they’re “a child.”

The tone of OP’s posts are susicious, to me. So much anger. I wonder if the OP can’t control the venting, needs some personal self-examination. OR, if this OP is really the kid, repeating, from his POV, all the crap shoveled on him.

195

@roycroftmom Imo, when resources are finite and we suspect some issues based on hs, we don’t set them up for failure. We don’t just look at “T50” and expect everything to be hunky dory. We spend a little time looking at more than college ranking, maybe even keep a kid closer to home, etc. The job isn’t done when the admit letter comes.

More to the point, maybe this kid doesn’t belong at that college. But the OP is posting all sorts of judgments, invective, blaming this kid when they formed him and sent him off unprepared. OP puts ALL the blame on this kid. That’s sad.

196

OP, it seems to me that you and your spouse have done everything you possibly can to help your son succeed. You supported him thru high school, you’ve paid his way thru college, you’ve offered tutoring, you’ve helped him get a job, you’ve given sound advice, you’ve exposed him to good things, etc.

Despite all of this, he has not learned the lessons you intended to teach, and his character/performance is not what you envisioned. You’re disappointed and maybe also afraid of what this means for his future. And right now, you’re too upset to focus on his good qualities, even though I’m sure you know he has them.

My advice is this: Realize you’ve done your best, acknowledge that your help is no longer helping him, and give him the reins to his own life.

Decide the minimum standard he must meet to stay in school and communicate that to him. Let him know that if he doesn’t meet that minimum standard, he will need to come up with his own plan for employment, education, living arrangements, etc.

You do not go out and find him a job that provides tuition reimbursement, you don’t make a connection with a family friend, you don’t enroll him in CC, you don’t take him to therapy, you don’t test for LD’s, etc. He’s more than capable of pursuing those things on his own.

You let him do his own research, make his own decisions and live out the consequences of those decisions. I know that is scary, but that is how he’ll learn. He might also grow to appreciate the things you did for him previously and might eventually develop the maturity and humility necessary to seek out and take your advice.

But for now, you’ve done your best, and it’s enough. You have every right to set a minimum standard for continued college funding. If he doesn’t meet that standard, let him formulate and execute his own plan. You’ve done more than enough.

197

It’s your money, so if you want to stop paying for college you should do that.

I don’t think that will make you happy, but you are miserable as things are now.

198

@JGmom20 maybe I missed these pieces of info…

  1. Are there other siblings who either have already attended college, or will be doing so in the future?
  2. What does the other parent think about all of this? Are you on the same page or are you looking at this from different angles?
199

This thread speaks to me because of my experience with my S19. I’m of the camp that is left feeling very cold by the OP’s description of her son, as @Corraleno so aptly summarized. My S, who only half-heartedly engaged in elementary school and middle school and who lied easily to get out of situations and to hide what he hadn’t done and to continue his passion for video games with friends, developed drug and alcohol problems that I discovered the first month of ninth grade. From that point on, for the next four years, almost, I took him to numerous therapists and drug dependency programs, and as he got older, he got more forceful in his defiance. I called the police twice and sent him to live in a group home for two weeks once. He was suspended twice from high school for drugs and alcohol on campus. He got many Ds and Fs in high school. My anger was very deep, I put up thick walls, I counted down to when I could kick him out, but even at the very worst, I could have easily told anyone three good things about my son: he was a gifted musician; he loved to perform in groups, musically or in drama productions; he was funny; he could put on an act and schmooze, but he also was polite and could engage with others honestly; he valued his friendships; he tested in GATE in elementary school; he was creative in visual arts as well as in music; he loved his sister; he worried about his father’s health; and that is more than three qualities. I also could point to my own shortcomings as a parent. So if the OP is an actual parent, I can empathize with her hostility and disappointment, but therapy has helped me tremendously, if only to quit blaming myself so much for my son’s problems and to express my anger so that I can build a bridge back to my son.

Here is where we are today: he’s living at home, taking his first full semester of classes at the local cc. He took two classes in the summer and got an A and a B (in his major, music, and got the B because he refused to do the weekly homework). I don’t want to hijack the thread, but what worked for me was insisting that he string together 90 days of sobriety and clean drug tests in order to get the car. He relapsed in the middle and tested positive for alcohol for two weeks, so I added two weeks to the end date. And he did it. I know he’s gone back somewhat to the weed, and I used to track his phone, but I stopped doing that because he outsmarted me technologically. I was a high achiever academically, but I would like to say to the OP, though she seems very defensive and not open to learning, that there are many ways to education and financial self-sufficiency. Our plans are not the only way. But at some level the son knows how she feels, and even if he is gregarious with his friends, he knows her hostility and that is damaging and lonely. It’s difficult, but pulling the plug on the college expenses should not be the primary question, even if it was on this thread. I’m in the camp of Cs get degrees, so let him get his degree in four years with his Cs. He’s better off with a bachelor’s than without. If after four years he doesn’t have a degree, then that’s on him. What should be the primary question is how to repair the relationship. Life is long, and do you want heartache on both sides to comprise the future? Your relationship with your son matters far more than whether he is a “lazy, visionless, lying, and unmotivated teen man.” He is your son, and he needs his parents’ love, no matter what age he is. And we need the peace of having warm relationships with our children. I’m not saying it’s easy to repair the relationship, but first steps should be taken and can be very healing for both sides.

200

It’s a fallacy that someone with a 2.0 in intro classes is incapable of anything better later, especially if it is a lack of interest or motivation behind the low grades. I know (very well) someone who got all rather lackluster Bs in freshman year college and by senior year was not only a straight A student but won a couple of class prizes for best student in particular classes.
I’m not sure what might motivate this student, but being told he is a lazy loser slacker clearly isn’t doing it.