<p>I, like sryrstress, love CC for the general sense of kindness and thoughtfulness among people of often different views. It’s disappointing when people jump to conclusions, based on their assumptions…such as the assumptions about sryrstress, and about what oldfort’s expression “the right school” might mean. John’s assumption sounds like it’s more about his experience than oldfort’s-- but he’s still got strong ideas about the right school! Parents in major cities go through absolute torment over their kids’ public grammar school. I was desperately anxious about my D’s public middle school. There was one very regimented place and a charter school known for its creativity and for really valuing its students. That school changed my D’s life, as I had guessed it would. So, I’m all for finding “the right school.”</p>
<p>OP had weird assumption-</p>
<p>with one kid we were not involved at all- she wanted to do it all herself and we fit our involvement to match her personality</p>
<p>with the other it was a collaborative effort, again matching participation with kid’s personality</p>
<p>some kids want/need more help; others don’t</p>
<p>finding the “right school” means a good match of kid’s academic, social, and financial needs </p>
<p>worked for first kid; hope it works for the second</p>
<p>Kei</p>
<p>I am back on, had meetings back to back.</p>
<p>Well, I am a Chinese immigrant who grew up with hand me downs. When we lived in NYC our kids went to a school with a lot of diversity even though it was a private school. We moved to a town outside of NYC where there were very few non-white people. Our mixed race older daughter was getting picked on by kids at our public school, so we decided to move her to a private school where there were more kids from different cultures. When we chose the school, it was for their academic reputation, and at the end of day we wanted her to be at a place where she would be happy, not a place she would dread going everyday. In our case, we didn’t make her suck it up to have to put up with bullies in school, and we were fortunate to have the resource to provide a different alternative for her.</p>
<p>Punnypunpun,</p>
<p>I can only quote the great “Roseanne”:</p>
<p>You’re one of the few things we own outright.</p>
<p>I own 2 Ss and 1 D. In the global game of Risk, I position my Ss and Ds for World Domination. You are ours! Mwahahahahahahaha.</p>
<p>My son is in the middle of his Freshman year at a top school and is thriving. He is an only child and his father and I worked hard to choose the right elementary and secondary schools, attend every parent teacher conference, etc., etc. He had a great college counselor through his school and he came up with his own list. We took him to visit some of the schools he applied to and some of them he visited on his own. I worked really hard to not be over-involved through the application process, and often used CC as an outlet for my curiosity and energy. It was also a great way to get information.</p>
<p>In contrast, in the late 1970s, I was the first National Merit Finalist at a school in the rural midwest. I had one half hour meeting with my college counselor and when I mentioned that I wanted to go to MIT he spent the whole time talking about how much his son’s were enjoying the State Tech college. My parents were really uninvolved, even though they would have had the skills to help. I may have pushed them away, they may have thought I would benefit from doing it all myself. Anyhoo, I remember going through the stacks and stacks of college catalogs and selecting one LAC that was over 2000 miles away to apply to because the place and the academic descriptions etc. etc. looked interesting and the Barron’s book at the Community Library (there was no internet or CC for students or parents then!) said it was a really top academic school. So I submitted one application, and, luckily, got accepted. I received a financial aid award of some type but I have no idea how much–I took out a lot of loans and somehow my parents paid the difference but it was always kind of a problem and source of stress. In retrospect I know that this particular LAC was very under-endowed relative to it’s peers and limited in terms of financial aid.</p>
<p>Only through my son’s process have I begun to understand the potential options I might have had for merit scholarships, or for more attractive financial aid packages from some schools. This was never brought up or explored, and since I only applied one place I never had a range of options. In the end, I loved my college experience, but I think it wasn’t the best choice for me and that I would have fit in better elsewhere.</p>
<p>So I wish my parents had hovered more, asked me more questions, suggested I consider certain things, etc.</p>
<p>Interesting replies. </p>
<p>sryrstress, relax. Don’t be so sensitive. If you think I was being “condescending, arrogant, and speak on matters of which they are unaware…” just say so. You don’t have to hide behind generalizations with me. I’m a big boy and I can take it… And I don’t see where I slammed anyone. In fact it sounds like at least two of my three assumptions were correct. </p>
<p>And I was pretty much where you were in 1982. Except that my siblings and I knew full well that because of my single mom’s situation, we were responsible for our own destiny. I was two grades ahead in school, and received letters from “Ivies” encouraging me to apply. Both of my parents have college degrees, and despite being a single mom of 5 kids, my mother has two advanced degrees she earned while raising us. So, we were all expected to attend college as well. But it was clear that anything after high school was OUR job. Both of my brothers were on their own at 16, and I left for college at 17, without assitance. It CAN be done if a kid has enough motivation (wherever they may find that). We found our motivation from our financial situation. None of us wanted to live like that anymore, and we all knew that college was the first step out of that situation. The problem with most kids in the U.S. today is that they’ve never really been hungry, and therefore don’t have an appreciation for the opportunities they have before them. It is well chronicled that first generation Americans tend to work much harder than their second and third generation offspring. By the fourth generation, the great-grandkids of those immigrants are as lazy as any other American kid. Sad, but true.</p>
<p>With respect to finding the “right” school for small kids, I just get REALLY tired of seeing people run away from problems instead of digging in and teaching their kids that if you want the world to change, you DON’T run away from problems - you stay and FIX them.</p>
<p>The reason our inner-cities have declined in this country is because of the “white flight” that occurred through the latter half of the 20th century. If those folks had the courage to stay and make a difference in their neighborhoods, we would likely not have the serious issues we face today in major urban areas. </p>
<p>I’m sure the hard working teachers and staff at those inner city schools really appreciate the well-to-do parents with “good” values taking their kids and putting them in school elsewhere… </p>
<p>Gwen, of course my assumptions are about my experience. Where else would I come up with them? Are you now saying that there is something wrong with being white, well off and not wanting your kids to be around “certain” people???</p>
<p>I mean, let’s be honest here. </p>
<p>John.</p>
<p>
Confusing, limbwalker. Did you stay in your situation to fix it, or did you and your sibs jump as early as possible at the better opportunities elsewhere? And as I read oldfort’s response to you, methinks you were only right about one of your 3 assumptions. You said you didnt want to live in a bad financial situation. Why would you fault others for wanting the same?? 
</p>
<p>jym, we were teenage kids raised in deplorable housing conditions. What do you think we did? </p>
<p>But now that I’m an adult, I recognize the value in showing my kids all aspects of society and help them understand what they are seeing. We recently moved from a nearly all-white community (literally 99%) to one that is roughly 25% hispanic and 30% African-American, by choice. Our kids noticed the difference right away, but my wife and I wanted them to have a chance to realize that people of every race are pretty much just the same. And they are beginning to realize that now. And we also show them the value in shopping locally,contributing to your local community and not running for the gated community when times get tough. </p>
<p>And it wasn’t the “financial situation” I was referring to, it was the inadequate housing I was referring to when I said we didn’t want to live “like that”. It is possible to be educated and still live modestly in communities where the average person may be struggling. In fact, we are finally seeing a resurgence of this in areas like Detroit, where those who may have grown up in the ‘burb’s’ or moved away when they were younger are buying up old neighborhoods and mustering up the courage to move in and contribute to their revival. </p>
<p>Until we see more of that, our public schools won’t get better, they will only get worse. In fact, if persons of every income level HAD to send their kids to public schools, you can bet our public school system would be much, much better.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I am one of those who would dig my heels in to stand my ground, sometimes at all costs, including myself. The only thing that is off the table is my children’s well being and their happiness. I would not stand the ground to try to change the world, if it meant sacrificing my kids’ happiness. There is no cause in the world that’s worth it, and that’s the selfish part in me as a parent.</p>
<p>Oldfort, I can understand that if your kids were truly in danger. </p>
<p>But who ever said kids needed to be happy? LOL! </p>
<p>Parenting is tough duty. That much is certain…</p>
<p>Where IS that instruction manual???</p>
<p>John.</p>
<p>What you are describing, limbwalker, is something called cognitive dissonance. Don’t need to justify the experience of growing up in deplorable conditions by looking at the skills it taught you. You made the best of a bad situation, and that is great-- you are a survivor and I congratulate you for that. But it doesn’t mean that you would have stayed there to fix it any more than anyone else would or should. All I am saying is that there is no need to fault oldfort for the choices she made. I agree with her, that our kids needs come before our own.</p>
<p>There are lots of ways to “fix” problems. One can do it from the inside or from the outside.</p>
<p>" Don’t be so sensitive. If you think I was being “condescending, arrogant, and speak on matters of which they are unaware…” just say so. You don’t have to hide behind generalizations with me. I’m a big boy and I can take it… "</p>
<p>John, dude…you were being condescending, arrogant and unaware. Reread your posts. You may think you are a superior being by moving your children to a more racially mixed school. If that was important to you, then fine. Most of us aren’t putting that as the main factor into the thought process, we are just looking for the best educational experience for our children. Some children need plenty of guidance and a particular school setting, others don’t. Really, reread your earlier posts. If you don’t know someones history, it is not such a good idea to fill in the blanks.</p>
<p>I came from what most would consider a very neglected childhood, and BECAUSE of that it why I am a nauseatingly attentive parent. I have the luxury to be so, and my kids have turned out independent, happy, generous and wonderful!!</p>
<p>Lol, busdriver, very well said!</p>
<p>“Most of us aren’t putting that as the main factor into the thought process…”</p>
<p>The few times I’ve been on this forum, I’ve noticed the same…</p>
<p>Busdriver, there is more to a child’s whole “education” than just academics. Sometimes the only way to truly understand life’s challenges is to live them. You can be the most “educated” person in the world, but those who are struggling won’t really care if you can’t relate to them.</p>
<p>“John, dude…you were being condescending, arrogant and unaware. Reread your posts…”</p>
<p>I have. Unaware, perhaps. Which is why I even bother to come here and participate - to learn. And I’ve done that and expect to learn some more… But the condescending and arrogant is not intentional. More likely a perception by those with delicate sensibilities…</p>
<p>John.</p>
<p>Well, many of us have done the same thing on cc. Truth is, it’s easy to be harsh and judgmental upon others, unintentionally, but it feels different when you open up your life to people and they criticize you without knowing anything about you. </p>
<p>Of course there is more to raising kids then academics. Parents try to teach their kids everything they can. But you can’t possibly know enough about others lives to decide where they should have put their kids in school. Way too personal. My kids go/went to a school that was very diverse—but they went there because it was the best school in the city, unbelieveable education. Should I have bussed them across town to attend another school with even greater diversity that has terrible delinquency and crime rates, poverty and huge classes, just so they could understand life’s challenges? Should I have exposed my introverted son to bullying just so he knows how it feels? </p>
<p>And the main problem with children in this country is not that their parents are too caring and attentive. It’s that they’re not.</p>
<p>There is no easy answer. I think there is value in learning at a young age how to deal with some of the difficulties life is going to hand you. Learning to run away from problems isn’t IMO a great quality to pass along to a child. </p>
<p>The lessons and experiences you have in public schools are real life. Good, bad, or ugly. My wife and I talk to our kids about the things they are exposed to in public school. We feel they are learning important skills that will keep them safe and make them more effective adults. </p>
<p>I don’t expect others to share that view. Gated subdivisions haven’t sprung up all over the outskirts of every major urban center because people share my view…</p>
<p>John.</p>
<p>Though I am not the OP, I see where he’s coming from. Like someone stated in a previous page, the kids who tend to ask these questions have parents who don’t care/have better things to worry about. I admit, when I first joined CC and lurked on the Parents Forum, I was amazed and wondered the same thing the OP did. But I would never have the audacity to be straightforward with my question. As I read on, I began to think that maybe my sense of normalcy and the average American sense was skewed. </p>
<p>Not to sound like a sob story here, but when I read threads about parents helping their kids with college tours, interviews, the outfit to wear to the interview, I frown, not out of disapproval but out of what could have been.</p>
<p>John, I’m curious: how do you feel about the option under No Child Left Behind for parents to yank their kids from failing schools and send them somewhere else? Is that running away from problems?</p>
<p>gee S and D seems no creepier than the abreviations all you young texters use</p>
<p>u no what Im saying 4 sure</p>
<p>yeah, I know, lame. But I don’t text with abreviations so don’t really know the lingo. That’s why it takes me a million years to get a message out there</p>
<p>People are different, pun. Different stokes for different folks, and that includes how a family may approach the college search and applications.</p>
<p>I knew a guy from work who grew up in Brooklyn. According to him it was the worst part of Brooklyn 30 years ago. One day we were out, he let me borrow his jacket because it was cold. I felt something hard and heavy in his pocket. I asked him what it was. He told me it was a gun. He told me that growing up he always had to defend himself and he only felt safe with a gun. At that time, he was living in the nicest part of Westchester on a 3 acre. His wife came back unexpectedly one night from visiting her mother(she was suppose to sleep over), he was half asleep, and the first thing he thought of was to reach for his gun.</p>
<p>I am not saying everyone turns out like my friend if he goes to a tough school or neighborhood. But if a kid feels uncomfortable in a school environment because he feared for his safety, how focus could he be about learning. As adults, we often have options in changing our jobs if we didn’t like our manager or working environment. Is it then fair that our kids should feel powerless and unhappy about where they have to be everyday for 13 years. We may feel like we have to make a statement or position by sticking it out in a tough situation (school), but that’s an adult’s agendar. There are many ways to change our public school system in poor neighborhood without subjecting our kids to it if we had a choice. As a parent, it is my job to make sure my kid sfeels safe and secure. I wouldn’t use them as pawns to further my personal political or social agendar.</p>