<p>I read the first page and it got too long after that lol.</p>
<p>However, I will add my own observations...</p>
<p>I am basically in a flip flopped situation...sort of. I go to a 95% black school where there is a higher concentration of white people in the advanced classes and the past 4 out of 5 (including myself) valedictorians have been white? Why, why is this?! I don't know...</p>
<p>
[quote]
^^
I dislike the fact that in order to counter a historical attitude of white superiority, you promote black superiority.</p>
<p>Reverse racism blows.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm not promoting black superiority. I'm saying that if blacks hadn't been enslaved and prevented from getting educated, we could've easily risen to power. That's all I'm saying.</p>
<p>It's all about the mentality of the student which ultimately stems from the parenting, childhood, and environment. Peer pressure is also a big factor. I went to middle and high schools that were both over 60% AA, and it seems the thought that education is something to be overlooked and not taken seriously is much more prevalent with AA's and hispanics. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of whites who share the same mentality and do not care about school, but it seems to be a lot more common with AA's. Asians are the exception as hard work, education, and honor are ingrained in the minds of children due to cultural pressures.</p>
<p>Don't bring up the slavery issue. Africans enslaved fellow africans. Africans sold fellow africans to traders. Theres still slavery in Africa to this day. How come Europeans, Asians, and Arabs were making groundbreaking discoveries and making intellectual pursuits throughout history, while much of Africa wasn't doing much? Africa sold it's soul for temporary profit while it was being raped of natural resources and people</p>
<p>this is sad.
cant people all be treated as equal? :/
...........</p>
<p>Nigerian movies...ugh, my stomach turns at the mention of them. For those who don't know, they're like really badly acted Bollywood. With Africans, of course.</p>
<p>But no, I know at least 20 African immigrants who are either still here after their student visa expired, married a poor American to get a green card, or lied about their status so they could get over here.</p>
<p>Sadly, most of them are my family members :)</p>
<p>exactly, daniel- why can't we?</p>
<p>on to singdance's statement:
"I'm not promoting black superiority. I'm saying that if blacks hadn't been enslaved and prevented from getting educated, we could've easily risen to power. That's all I'm saying."
the problem with this assumption is that we aren't being prevented from getting educated now. in fact, schools are actively recruiting "minorities." it's been, what, 40 years since the civil rights movement-so why haven't we reached a place of predominance yet, if we had all that repressed potential?
no one seems to want to take advantage of all this opportunity. america is an awesome place... a place where they even GIVE you money to study. you don't see that in africa... </p>
<p>princessbell-ha, that's just classic. but don't "hate" on nigerian movies, i love them, tacky as they are. espescially the religious ones, they're the funniest.</p>
<p>"oh, god, ohhhhh! why have you forsaken me, oh?"
;-)</p>
<p>
[quote]
this is sad.
cant people all be treated as equal? :/
...........
[/quote]
Let me check. Oh, yes. But this is opposite of what is going on in US right now. I say, let's treat people equal. This means:
a) Ignoring political correctness idiocy.
b) Removing Affirmative Action.
c) Making absolutely no distinctions between black, white, yellow -- whatever.</p>
<p>Let's have an example. I work in IT. There are virtually no black software developers that I ever saw. There might be some. But I haven't seen any black person who can program in some sort of computer language. NEVER.</p>
<p>Now let's say I want to hire someone. Black and white person comes to interview. White person has very basic knowledge while black guy is cool as a fool in a swimming pool in programming. I am a racist pig (let's pretend) and I hire the white guy. My competitor, meanwhile, hires that black guy. In two months my company can't produce anything reasonable. I go bankrupt, lose all my property and go live under a bridge eating from garbage cans and occassional donations from Salvation Army. See?</p>
<p>Letting people just do whatever the hell they want while not letting them injure others' freedom (like in slavery which kind of blows) is the best way to get anything done. Evolution ftw!</p>
<p>
[quote]
mr_chipset: Your argument is horribly flawed. First of all- no one ever said a 190 equaled a 215. It's not like college admissions say- Oh, the National Merit Scholar and the National Achievement Scholar are the same. It WOULD be unfair if they said, blacks are NMS at 190 and white are NMS at 215, but that's not true. They have different names for a reason. Also, Jews are not a race. Judaism is a religion. Blacks and Jews are not comparable in that way.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Jew</a> - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>
<p>
[quote]
There's a HUGE difference between African Americans, Africans, and Kenyans/other african groups. First of all, African Americans and Africans have diverged GREATLY, both socially and genetically. Obviously, an African American and an African will share more traits/genes than with a Caucasian, but there are still more differences than most people think.
[/quote]
Reference needed. I see two people of exact same color, appearance and behavior. I think they have common genes.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Second, socially, Africans and African Americans are VERY different. If you know a large population of African immigrant children, you will know that their work ethic is similar to that of the typical Asian stereotype. African parents are often very controlling, and view sucess narrowly. It's always about being number 1. In Africa, the number 1 goal is to get to America and/or get money. There are three ways to do this:
1) Be very smart and go to American college
2) Cheat/lie/marry your way over
3) Do sports.
It just happens that typical African bone structure and lifestyle are most helpful in sports such as running and soccer. There are more skinny Africans than fat/muscular ones. I'm sure if Africans were naturally large, they would be really good football players. Most of these people walk/run EVERYWHERE- to get water, to get to town, to get to school. That culture simply doesn't exist in the United States.
[/quote]
When I lived in Ukraine, there were too people who walked everywhere. Some of my classmates walked/ran 3-4 miles just to school and back. Unfortunately, not seeing many Ukrainians on top of distance running records.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There are also a lot of African American runners, which may stem from the lean body structure. You may argue that there are lots of obese African Americans, but really, most AA children are skinny as rails. Then they are overfed with ham hocks and pies to develop 'curves' and the like (stereotype/fact). The African running thing has no place in this discussion because Africans do not equal African Americans.
[/quote]
But they have common genes.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And your conclusion? No proof. None whatsoever. You may argue, this study says this! But for every study that says genes trump environment, another says the exact opposite. There has been no clear winner in nature vs. nurture, and until there is, your argument has no substance.
[/quote]
Well, my point </p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm sorry if this appears excessively rude, but then again, your post was simply unacceptable. It's not about political correctness. To hell with that. It's about being sensical and coherent.
[/quote]
Where was I not sensical and coherent? But yeah, don't worry about rudeness, this is discussion so let's leave all crap aside :)</p>
<p>PS. I never tried to be sensical. I try to be truthful. If I see that someone sucks I just say "you suck." If I see that most of people of race X suck I say "most of the people of race X suck." And I'll never be forced to say something I don't think is true just because someone, somewhere thinks it will "offend" his or her feelings. I simply do not give a crap.</p>
<p>PPS. This is a fun discussion :)</p>
<p>chipset-
"Reference needed. I see two people of exact same color, appearance and behavior. I think they have common genes."
how about a personal one?</p>
<p>we share color these days and not much else. even our appearance, over time, has differentialized- the bone structure differences in an african or the descendant of an african and an american black is easy to see, if you know what to look for.</p>
<p>and the behavior between the two is extremely different-'</p>
<p>typical black- just doing what they have to do to get by in school. sports obssessed. romance obssessed. obssessed with clothes and property- how many air jordans do you have, do you have the new pair no one else does...-speaks "ghetto" even if they've lived in the suburbs their whole life(so irritating!)</p>
<p>typical second gen african- "talks white." oreo, basically. more interested in success than their black counterparts. go to a good school, be successful, blah blah blah. high stress, high expectation- very much like the asians.</p>
<p>plus, we eat fufu.</p>
<p>" I never tried to be sensical. I try to be truthful. If I see that someone sucks I just say "you suck." If I see that most of people of race X suck I say "most of the people of race X suck." And I'll never be forced to say something I don't think is true just because someone, somewhere thinks it will "offend" his or her feelings. I simply do not give a crap."</p>
<p>my hero! </p>
<p>about IT- i'm interested in being a computer programmer but heard all the jobs are being outsourced and it's a crap industry for americans. true? is it even worth it?
and do you really make $60,000 starting wage?</p>
<p>My point is that we must not force anyone to make any distinctions just based upon color of skin. And we must eliminate Affirmative Action.</p>
<p>
[quote]
about IT- i'm interested in being a computer programmer but heard all the jobs are being outsourced and it's a crap industry for americans. true? is it even worth it?
and do you really make $60,000 starting wage?
[/quote]
All good and interesting jobs for programmers stay in United States :) It's usually the monotone tasks that get outsourced to India. And trust me, it is very hard to outsource the complex and interesting projects.
Generally if you are somewhat good programmer you will find job in no time. Crap, I haven't finished my Junior year yet and worked two (actually three but I worked like a week on this C++/QA project and left because I accepted offer to some place more interesting) programming jobs!
Not to show how smart I am but how desperate world is for programmers.</p>
<p>I mean, if you hire a kid with 640 math SAT and score of 1(that's right,1) on the AP Calc exam to do C++ coding you might be pretty desperate :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
plus, we eat fufu.
[/quote]
Oh shiz man, that's the unbreakable argument :o</p>
<p>To the OP: read Come on People by Bill Cosby and Alvin Poussaint. Also, if you have HBO, there was a documentary recently about Little Rock Arkansas schools 50 years after desegregation, I think it was called Little Rock Central, 50 years later.</p>
<p>"why can't black people be smart, anyway?"</p>
<p>are you serious? lol</p>
<p>how about you stop generalizing and "be the change you wish to see in the world" </p>
<p>man...its a sad sad day when the black youths of America are so blind to their own ignorance...sigh</p>
<p>wow, come on, i thought CC was filled with smart kids?</p>
<p>Its a lot of factors. First of all African Americans didn't have the opportunity to be middle class until the 1970s from all of the institutionalized discrimination. This caused a poverty-driven culture to develop in african american society (think about it, after the end of slavery black people had to reinvent a new common culture, and since they were poor it was borne out of poverty so it carries some common traits of poor people of every race). Even those who are rich or upper middle class are the first generation to be that way. It takes generations of being in money (hence the terms old money and new money family) to changes the culture of the person.
-Second you could say the lack of black role models in society. Through the media academic success is portrayed as a white and asian thing. So even african americans who could excel if they tried don't because they've already convinced themselves they'd fail or they don't want to isolate themselves from the rest of the black community (this is the same as with all poor people but is magnified in the black community and spreads even to the upper middle class). So instead they go to where they do see people excelling, athletics. It doesn't have as much to do with genetics as culture. </p>
<p>-A series of other things including lowered expectations of teachers and peers factor into it as well. Many of the high achieving whites and asians aren't readily accepting of their black peers because they aren't used to dealing with black people, so they can't get past the fact that they are black and whole conversations consist of stereotypes & political correctness, never developing a real relationships. Both black people and poorer people tend to be more accepting because the cultures are similar, but people tend to be put off if you are seen as "trying to be to uppity" around them, so in order to join those circles you have to underachieve.
Think about it, if you're in middle school would you rather have friends that accept you and not try as hard or not have any "real" friends but reach your potential. Its a lot harder to choose the latter and many people who are excelling right now wouldn't be able to overcome that obstacle if they had it. </p>
<p>I don't really blame CCers for not knowing these things, many probably aren't close enough to any black people to ask them about it.</p>
<p>-The problem is the culture. And the only way to change the culture is to help as many black families as possible come into money and stay there so that a wealthier more positive culture develops and spreads. If you've ever seen a rich black community of second generation professionals, they are exactly the same as any other wealthy class. So i guess thats kind of the justification behind Affrimative action and stuff too.</p>
<p>If you got anymore questions pm me.</p>
<p>i do not want to offend anyone, so sorry if i do unintentionally</p>
<p>there are studies that who that asian people (chinese people, indian people, etc) have the highest test scores and IQs in America, and black and hispanic people have lower test scores and IQs. this may be because IQ tests are biased, i dont know (there are certainly many debates about them). it may be genetics, but most of the is caused by culture, values, and the $$ that these people have. there are fewer black parents encourage them to go to harvard or princeton than do asian parents. there are more black people living in black neighborhoods where education is not as valued, and the majority of their peers do not care about school. and also the asian people who immigrated to the united states from china or india or usually the ones who graduated from college and go to graduate school here, so they're usually the smarter end of the asian population in asia. hispanics and blacks did not come here for education, but for other reasons. this may be why asians are stereotypically smarter in america.</p>
<p>correct me if i'm wrong, this is just what i've been taught.</p>
<p>Mm.
I have no empirical evidence either, but it should count for something that Asian immigrants are usually of the educated elite and Mexican immigrants are usually poor workers... it has to do with the respective immigration laws. And oh, this is going to be extremely politically incorrect and even I'm not sure if it makes sense, but the Africans are descendants of slaves, who were descendants of people who were caught and sold by other Africans. I'd imagine these slaves were not the most intelligent people in their countries...At least not the most wealthy and successful Africans, who would have the resources to protect themselves from being captured and sold into slavery. So that's just my imput into the genetic side of this issue.</p>
<p>Generalizations=STUPID.
Black people can be smart, Asians can be smart, Hispanics can be smart, and Caucasians and anyone else I forgot to mensio can be smart. WHY?
It's who works the hardest. ME=Nigerian. Only black person in my school doing all APs (possible) and honors--yet, doesn't mean I'm smarter.
Point is, work your but off, and hopefully people will be able to see past the "accent or melanin in your skin."</p>
<p>Genes and DNA have nothing whatsoever between the differences in intelligence between two different societies. Rather, the difference between an individual and another individual is greater than the difference between a group of ppl vs another group of ppl.</p>
<p>The MAJOR reason why blacks SEEM to be 'stupider' is because over the course of several decades blacks have been underprivileged in terms of educational opportunities. However, since education opportunity for blacks/hispanics is opening, in the upcoming century we WILL see a greater balance between 'intellingence' between race.</p>
<p>Remember Hannibal of Carthage? He was one of the most brilliant strategists in history. He almost beat the Roman empire had he not been so unlucky. Guess what race he was? Black.
The first civilization on earth? Egyptian Empire? Founded by Africans (who happen to be blacks)
And yeah, I know african-americans do not = africans. But the OP specifically said "blacks", which inlcude africans as well</p>
<p>PS1: Any two humans share 99.9% of their genes. There you go. We even share 96% of our genes with higher apes. (No, I didn't pull these number off my a$$, look in any competitive bio-psychology book)
PS2: I've lived in 5 foreign countries over the course of 12.5 years. I understand diversity, and I know that intelligence/physical prowess is NOT determined by genetics in terms of race vs race
PS3: anyone who says intelligence difference between race is determined by genetics is a SCUMBag who promotes racial hatred and superiority/inferiority.</p>
<p>"It's who works the hardest."</p>
<p>no, intelligence really counts a lot in life, in what you're able to do. if you have to work your a$$ off for something that someone else can do rather easily, the latter person would be more successful.</p>
<p>"man...its a sad sad day when the black youths of America are so blind to their own ignorance...sigh"</p>
<p>i'm not ignorant- i'm simply not stupid enough to let what's "proper"- i.e. political correctness- get in the way of really seeing.</p>
<p>my argument for the usefulness of generalization</p>
<p>okay- so a baby puts it's hand on a hot stove. obviously, baby gets burned. baby does it again. gets burned- AGAIN. third time, the baby's not going to do it. the baby learned from past experience that it will get burned.</p>
<p>of course, as we get older, we learn that not every stove will burn us. not every stove is on, after all. or working.</p>
<p>this is an accepted psycology fact. so why aren't we aloud to apply the knowledge to different race groups? oh yeah, it's not the politically correct thing to do.</p>
<p>but i'm sure someone on here is going to be ****ed off that i compared blacks to a hot stove that burns kids, right?</p>
<p>pssh.</p>