Would you retake for a 760?

<p>Edit: Um..sorry for the digressing, but I am not going to read someone commandingly tell me not to disagree with a President I have no accordance with.</p>

<p>Spartan you have a goddamn problem with me criticizing our President? Freedom of Speech, Bill of Rights, 1st Amendment, created by Federalist Alexander B. Hamilton, don't fck around with my rights, I will criticize a President who has destroyed the basis of our nation, no doubt about it. I'm not here to stand around and watch, or follow some b.s because it seems like "it's the right way to go".</p>

<p>AMEN! im with xindianx all the way! Thats a TRUE AMERICAN PATRIOT!</p>

<p>Way Off Topic Here</p>

<p>Bush isn't the root of America's problems. Liberals are.</p>

<p>HELLO, THIs has nothing to do with the 760 bio</p>

<p>xindianx: Please explain how President Bush has "destroyed the basis of our nation," considering that his governing philosophy is far from a radical departure from his predecessors.</p>

<p>Also, please do justify your position that "Freedom of Speech, Bill of Rights, 1st Amendment" were "created by Federalist Alexander B. Hamilton." That's a very simplistic and inaccurate understanding of the underpinnings of those important Constitutional provisions.</p>

<p>Stop the ranting</p>

<p>Rak - you know why XstupidX thinks that - cause his parents and teachers tell him so.</p>

<p>uh, ok, why not. Let's start with President Bush's economical flaws. First off, Bush uses a policy known as "trickle down economics", which has been so clearly proved to be absolutely flawed (it's actually one of the major reasons our country was swept into the 1930s Great Depression). This is again proven by the fact that our economy is NOTHING compared to what it was during President Clinton's presidency. Next, foreign policy, you know that 90% of the fcking world hates us, literally? Do you know that the way we have waged acrimony and hostility across the globe is just like what all the bigshots centuries ago tried to do, and oh boy was it laughter for the groups of people that have been on this earth for thousands of years to watch empires like Caesar fall, Great Britain, et cetera. We are just becoming one of them with our imperliastic, and totally ignorant/self-indulgent ways. We have isolated ourself from the world, and we have gained what? We have gained a 101st senator of the United States of America (mr. tony blair). Let's see, what else? Why the hell do we have young boys in Iraq asking 'why am i here?', more than half of them think the reason is "Because these people blew up two towers in nyc". Can you believe that this is EXACTLY what Condolessa Rice stated when she went to Iraq, that we must make sure that the sep 11th incidents do not occur again, HELLO ARE YOU SERIOUS, there is ABSOLUTELY no link between the individuals that destroyed the wtc and iraq. No sir, we just needed a stronghold in the middleeast, and we DEF. needed that oil. Anyone remember what happened in the Arab Oil Embargo crises of the 1980s, come on guys im SURE you remember...Let's see what else. Domestic policy, Bush's Domestic policy has over and over resulted in tax cuts for the top 3% of our nation, *** is he trying to prove??? That he DEFINITELY has the vote of the rich folks in our nation?? What else, Bush has made CLEAR and EXPLICIT actions showing no separation of church and state, it's practically like he preaches in his speechs to the goddamn bible belt states, give me a break. He has shown fake moral values, I mean come on. I can go on and on and on, I have so many other actual facts which I have to pull up from my debate notebook and I have tons of other arguements that more than portray how the Bush Administration has, once again, destroyed the basis of our nation. And when I mean basis, I mean the belief that ALL peoples' opinions should be valued, and that we are a part of the globe, not apart of just the our country. </p>

<p>Secondly, your criticism of my statements on freedom of speech. Well, let me explain. What happened during the 1780/1790s was that the U.S was trying to ratify the constituion that we made, and the fact was many people were not ratifying it because it did not contain a Bill of Rights. And Alexander B. Hamilton (who was a major central gov person, but still stuck by his word) stated that there would be a bill of rights, and that basic rights would not be lost. This of course occured when the first 10 amendments were established, I of course was referring to amendment number 1, which states my freedom of speech, religion, press, et cetera. If that doesn't help then I advise you to use a search engine called google.com and look up the Bill of Rights, it's a major thing in our country if you didn't know..</p>

<p>EDIT: No need to call names Spartan, it is simply a debate, learn to follow up on the issues and you may have a potent arguement, if not then sit and watch please. Furthermore, I have the opinions I have because that is what I BELIEVE IN, not what my teachers or parents believe in. I more than disagree on many topics my parents have, in fact, just to let you know, BOTH OF MY PARENTS AGREE WITH MORE THAN HALF OF BUSH's PLATFORM, so I guess that further makes you look stupid. I MAKE MY OPINIONS, that is why I am expressing them FOR YOU all to understand.</p>

<p>oh lord...you guys need to take an american history class....and a philosophy class.....and a government class......or actually....how about just WITNESS 9-11 with your own *****in eyes out of your window...then you'll understand...stupid conservatives....."the liberals are america's problem"...wow....so ignorant, its unfathomable</p>

<p>^tell me about it man</p>

<p>(A Factory Worker in Ohio during 2004 election who voted for Bush): I lost my job yesterday and I can't feed my family, also my brother died in the Pentagon on 9/11, but at least we still have our moral values and we can assimilate gay people and prohibit women from aborting their babies!!! Because hey thats what matters in the end right....???</p>

<p>Face it, America's headed down the drain. Alan Greenspan and the Fed can twist the numbers and figures anyway they want to, but India and China are about to roar past the US in terms of economic and perhaps military strength, and leave our sorry asses behind...</p>

<p>man<em>on</em>fire...i completely sympathize with you, my mom lost her friend in the twin towers.....and i completely agree with you, instead of the economy, we are focusing on abortion and gay people...its a pity, it really is sad.....and look at these high schoolers, they dont understand anything, even though i am one myself, but i thankfully know the true meaning of what an American is</p>

<p>Amen to that brother. Too bad our president can't sympathize with us. Oh well, hopefully our generation will be much more intelligent in these matters and put America back in good standing. Lets start the revolution!!!!!!:cool:</p>

<p>NB: I'd just like to say that you've taken the time to try to prove an entirely different point than what I asked you about. You've sought to shown that Bush is a terrible President, but that has nothing to do with "destroying the basis of our nation." Bush is merely following the lead of others in his policies, whether they be Reagan or Wilson. You've yet to demonstrate a radically new policy that he's implemented.</p>

<p>
[quote]
First off, Bush uses a policy known as "trickle down economics", which has been so clearly proved to be absolutely flawed (it's actually one of the major reasons our country was swept into the 1930s Great Depression). This is again proven by the fact that our economy is NOTHING compared to what it was during President Clinton's presidency.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I actually agree that supply-side economics has its flaws. I agree even more that President Bush's specific economic policies have been poor. I oppose his policies on other, more technical grounds, however.</p>

<p>Your characterization of the Great Depression, is on the other hand, simplistic and inaccurate. The depression was caused by an amalgam of factors, none of which had to do with supply-side economics (the economic theory underlying modern economics had only recently been elucidated by Keynes, and the supply-siders were decades away). To draw from McConnell and Brue's staple undergrad text, here are the more accurate causes of the Great Depression.</p>

<p>
[quote]
A sagging level of investment spending was the major factor that pushed the U.S. economy into the economic chaos of the 1930s. In real terms, gross investment spending shrank by about 90 percent. We would depict this decline in investment as a large downward shift in the nation's aggregate expenditures schedule. The outcome in the 1930s was a historic decline in real GDP and a severe recessionary (depressionary) gap (196)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>They then go on to discuss the factors leading to this collapse in aggregate expenditures. The first was a massive over-expansion of the capital resource base, due to the high level of consumer spending and prosperity. This saturated the market with products and thus forced prices to go artificially low. Furthermore, both businesses and consumers had gone deeply in debt to finance spending (on capital and products respectively). "So by the late 1920s, much of the income of businesses was committed for the payment of interest and principal on past capital purchases and thus was not available for expenditures on new capital." Low prices meant low profits, which left cash reserves dangerously dwindled and companies unprepared for a rapid downturn in economic conditions. This primed the pump for the catastrophe that followed.</p>

<p>One of the industries that had fueled the prosperity was the construction industry, building houses that had been put off due to World War I. This new home construction "began to level off as early as 1926, and by the late 1920s the construction industry had virtually collapsed." This significantly reduced aggregate spending alone. Two other events severely exacerbated the situation, though. The first was the round of global trade battles unleashed by the Smoot-Hawley tariff act. This was designed to protect US industry while it got back on its feet, but backfired miserably. In response, other countries applied their own tariffs, and world trade volumes collapsed. This caused a marked downturn in aggregate expenditures, which further reduced the nation's ability to trade, and thus created a continually worsening loop. The Federal Reserve made matters even worse. They contributed greatly to the shrinkage of the money supply by 30% between 1929 and 1933. Such a monetary change resulted in severely depressed economic growth and spending, further reinforcing the negative trend.</p>

<p>As you can see, the Great Depression is a much more complicated and convoluted occurrence than you suggested. It wasn't even a natural product of the capitalist system, which, while unstable and known for marked downturns, could not have produced such an event as this alone.</p>

<p>As for prosperity under Clinton, you're confusing correlation with causation. Clinton promoted high quality government policies to be sure (I was a fan of his, personally). However, he was fortunate enough to have presided over the internet bubble, a naturally occurring economic phenomenon. (The economy is an independent force, and the President has only a rather limited ability to influence it, with the Fed having much more power, by the way.) So Clinton presided over the internet explosion, and then left right before the bubble naturally burst. Bush not only inherited a economy naturally in the recession part of the business cycle, but 9/11 occurred early in his term. It placed severe stress on the economy, which is one of the reasons that recovery has been so delayed.</p>

<p>
[quote]
you know that 90% of the fcking world hates us, literally? Do you know that the way we have waged acrimony and hostility across the globe is just like what all the bigshots centuries ago tried to do, and oh boy was it laughter for the groups of people that have been on this earth for thousands of years to watch empires like Caesar fall, Great Britain, et cetera.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>First of all, you have to differentiate between hating America and hating Bush. 90% of the world probably hates Bush. However, that cannot be directly translated into hating America. As Presidents have come and gone in the past, views toward the US have also waxed and waned. Public opinion is much more about the here and now than any long term set belief. Second, world public opinion is pretty irrelevant. Foreign policy is dominated by elites and elite institutions in all states, and all of them have a strong tendency to act in their national interests. They can and will continue to work with the US when it is opportune to do so. French opposition to the war in Iraq, for instance, did not prevent them from signing up for the Proliferation Security Initiative.</p>

<p>
[quote]
We are just becoming one of them with our imperliastic, and totally ignorant/self-indulgent ways.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The US has acted as a quasi-imperial power for decades, serving as the global guarantor of the Western world order. This role, despite Bush's rather public embrace of it, is declining rather than growing. With China and India becoming great powers again, the US will be forced by circumstance to become a leader among the great powers, and will no longer be able to claim superpower status.</p>

<p>
[quote]
We have isolated ourself from the world, and we have gained what?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That is patently untrue. The issue of Iraq was a transient tension point in relations between Washington and others, and it has since been eclipsed by more conventional great power concerns. France, for instance, has maintained an active working relationship throughout, and is indeed now making overtures toward a closer relationship. Their position is a smug "we told you so," not "we refuse to do business with you." The only key relationship that Bush has done some damage to is our relationship with Russia, but that's a much more complicated matter.</p>

<p>
[quote]
No sir, we just needed a stronghold in the middleeast, and we DEF. needed that oil.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's part of the explanation, but not the entire explanation. The US was also motivated by a desire to demonstrate power and resolve; demolishing Saddam sent the message that uncooperative states will suffer consequences if they cross the United States. As for oil, I disagree. The US could've simply allowed the embargo on oil sales to die (France, Russia, and China all wanted that) and then taken advantage of the additional cheap oil flowing into the world market. See Libya for a slightly different but related case. As it is, Iraq has become an unstable supplier of oil due to terrorist attacks. But replacing our military bases in Saudi Arabia and establishing a "stronghold" are all right on the mark.</p>

<p>I vehemently disagree with much of the President's domestic policies, so I won't really comment there.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Secondly, your criticism of my statements on freedom of speech. Well, let me explain. What happened during the 1780/1790s was that the U.S was trying to ratify the constituion that we made, and the fact was many people were not ratifying it because it did not contain a Bill of Rights. And Alexander B. Hamilton (who was a major central gov person, but still stuck by his word) stated that their would be a bill of rights, and that basic rights would not be lost. This of course occured when the first 10 amendments were established, I of course was referring to amendment number 1, which states my freedom of speech, religion, press, et cetera. If that doesn't help then I advise you to use a search engine called google.com and look up the Bill of Rights, it's a major thing in our country if you didn't know..

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Hamilton certainly agreed to allow for a Bill of Rights. But that's it. He did not believe they were necessary, as he thought that the Constitution limited the government's power to an extent that could not include infringing those right. He did not write the amendments either, and was not the major intellectual voice behind their passage. That's why I say you misrepresented history, because his role was marginal at best. If you want to talk about the spirit of the Bill of Rights, talk about the Antifederalists. Or at least Mr. Madison, I suppose. In any case, I really just dislike such rhetorical simplifications.</p>

<p>If I were Bush Sr, I'd be pretty proud of my son. He has set quite a few records. </p>

<p>He:
1. Set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
2. Set the record for the most protestors taking to the streets against any single person. Twenty million people worldwide took to the streets in protest of his policies.
3. Managed to turn an international outpour of sympathy (for 9/11) into worldwide hatred for the United States.
4. Lied about the Iraq war; Saddam did not have the chief requirements for producing nuclear weapons at the time of the Iraq war. Bush knew about this, George Tenet, head of the CIA at the time, personally intervened and told Condoleezza Rice that Saddam did not have the capabilities to make a nuclear weapon.
5. Has managed to turn $270 billion surplus (at the end of Clinton's term) into a $307 Billion deficit. The best part is, instead of helping combat the AIDs problem, poverty, or cancer, we're pelting Iraqi civilians with bombs (all in the name of freedom, mind you). </p>

<p>I think 5 is enough for the time being, its making me sick already, I don't think I can take much more. And just a parting quote from Mr. President:</p>

<p>
[quote]

I will send [Congress] a budget that holds the growth of discretionary spending below inflation, makes tax relief permanent, and stays on track to cut the deficit in half by 2009. My budget substantially reduces or eliminates more than 150 government programs that are not getting results or duplicate current efforts or do not fulfill essential priorities.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>As it stands, the deficit will be the largest in history and will exceed $400 billion every year for the next ten years. </p>

<p>And to give you a sense of how much that is, the debt is going up at the rate of $1.64 billion per DAY due to interest. </p>

<p>Just go here <a href="http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock&lt;/a> , refresh, and watch the numbers go up!</p>

<p>oh lord...someone has a lot of time on their hands......</p>

<p>that was directed to the bush supported with the extremely long rebuttal</p>

<p>Your arrogance is matched only by your anti-intellectual zealotry, Bklyn2Cornell.</p>

<p>my arrogance...i resent that! that is so....inappropriate....i am no arrogant at all watsoever...and plus, dont ever call my "zealotry".....if you wish to call it that.....anti-intellectual. I am not some radical liberal. You probably assumed that. You have no idea who i am but ill give you a hint. Lets say....President of county Young Democrats. Trust me, my words have intellectual basis, ok?</p>