Colleges Ward Off Overinvolved Parents

<p>Mark spitz wore ( and actually Greg Louganis too) as little of a suit as I would ever want to see on a man. Sadly, most men dont have the body of Greg Louganis :(</p>

<p>
[quote]
Sadly, most men dont have the body of Greg Louganis

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's a bad thing?</p>

<p>Our twin sons graduated from West Point on May 28. We might well have been described as “over-involved parents” when they were in high school. We were leaders in every parents group relating to our sons’ activities and sports, as well as the PTA. Thus Reception Day (R-Day) at West Point, 01 July 2001 came as a shock. We delivered the boys to West Point at 6:30 AM. We cued up with about 1,200 other cadet candidates plus their families and friends. Then crisply uniformed cadets efficiently ushered groups of us into a large auditorium.</p>

<p>After a few welcoming remarks from an Army colonel, a first classman (senior) announced, "You now have ninety seconds to say your good-byes. After that, cadet candidates will proceed to the front of the auditorium and exit through the door to your right. Everyone else will exit through the doors at the back of the auditorium. Your ninety seconds begin ... now!" </p>

<p>Exactly ninety seconds later, it happened as directed, with many stunned looks and tears on parents' faces. Cadet candidates were already showing the deer-in-the-headlights look my sons later said they would have for at least the first few days of "Beast Barracks" (formally, Cadet Basic Training).</p>

<p>Once the cadet candidates left the room, all parents/family/friends exited into a large lobby. The whole evolution from entry into the auditorium to delivery of families to the lobby took perhaps fifteen minutes. </p>

<p>Once in the lobby, cadet ushers directed us to tables where we picked up the mailing addresses our children would have for the next four years. Next, they herded us into a large room filled with booths where we could spend money. There were booths offering West Point paraphernalia, Army-Navy and home football tickets, enhancements and upgrades to the computer packages mandated for our sons/daughters, on-post hotel reservations for graduation in four years ... with a substantial deposit and four night minimum stay (all gone by 11:00 AM), USAA insurance, banking, and investment options, and many other things. There was also a long row of tables set up by the West Point Parents Clubs from around the country. These were there to provide counseling and advice by parents of upperclassmen and graduates, some of whom were "old grads" themselves (I helped staff our local club’s table for the next several years).</p>

<p>There were several restaurants in the complex and over lunch parents mingled and met counterparts from across the country. </p>

<p>After lunch, all the family and friends filed back into the auditorium for a parents orientation. Speakers were the Superintendent (equivalent of the college president), Academic Dean, Commandant (equivalent of provost at some colleges), and the first class cadet in charge of the first detail of Beast Barracks. We were told that our primary method of contact for the next six-plus weeks would be snail mail (and that frequent letters would be important to our children); that we would receive one ten-minute telephone call after about ten days ... no, we could not pre-schedule it; that there would be two more phone calls over the remainder of the six-weeks of Beast; that there would be no e-mail contact before Reorganization Week between the end of Beast and Acceptance Day when they would formally become part of the Corps of Cadets; and that our first opportunity to see our children in person would be in the afternoon after the Acceptance Parade in seven weeks ... no they would not be allowed to leave the post that day, beyond the very narrow bounds of "walking privileges" in the adjacent small town of Highland Falls.</p>

<p>The Supe went on to say that when our children took the oath at Trophy Point that afternoon, they would become emancipated by act of Congress. We would have no role in our children's decision making that they did not invite us into. Talk about cold turkey! That's when the change in our lives really hit home for many parents. </p>

<p>The Supe then enlisted the parents and gave them their mission for the next four years. He said that once the Academic Year began and contact became a bit easier, our cadets would need a non-judgmental sounding board, and parents can be that. Our primary role should be to listen to our cadets’ complaints, but he also warned us not to take them too seriously. He suggested we encourage, even sympathize, but not take sides. All service academy parents I know have stories about their sons or daughters calling with apparently terminal complaints or emergencies that keep the parents awake at night. By the next contact, the previous issue has been forgotten, only to be supplanted by another. In case of a true emergency, we were given a phone number to call. </p>

<p>The Comm outlined the training programs our children would complete over the next forty-seven months until graduation. The Dean described the curriculum. </p>

<p>By far the most impressive presentation was by the cadet in charge of the first half of Beast, Cadet First Class Andrew Blickhan. Everyone in the room -- upwards of four thousand people -- came away feeling that if our new cadets turned out anything like that after four years, they had made a good decision. (That cadet, now CAPT Andrew Blickhan, was featured last May in a 60 Minutes piece following his second tour in Iraq ... still very impressive).</p>

<p>After the orientation, it was time for everyone to migrate to Trophy Point, on a bluff overlooking the Hudson, for the Oath Ceremony. At 1700 the West Point Band -- the oldest military band in the country -- played as the 1,200 hundred or so cadet candidates marched out by company and lined up in front of the spire of Battle Monument, dedicated to the Regular Army dead of the Civil War. Their marching precision wasn’t exactly to Coldstream Guards standard yet, but the transformation was stunning. Few parents were able to pick out their sons or daughters because they all looked so alike … but at the same time so different from the young men and women we had seen file out of the auditorium early that morning. </p>

<p>In a brief ceremony, they raised their right hands and the Comm administered the oath. "I, (your name), do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States, and bear true allegiance to the National Government; that I will maintain and defend the sovereignty of the United States, paramount to any and all allegiance, sovereignty, or fealty I may owe to any State or country whatsoever; and that I will at all times obey the legal orders of my superior officers, and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.” (Historical note: Congress demanded that USMA adopt language very close to this after so many cadets left West Point to fight for their home states during the Civil War. The oath has changed little since.) Now they were officially “New Cadets” and taking the first steps to joining the Long Gray Line.</p>

<p>Tears were streaming down many parents’ faces. Then we were all craning our necks trying to catch a glimpse of our children as the band played the Beast Regiment into Washington Hall for dinner. (Unlike those softies in Annapolis, West Point parents have no chance to schmooze with their children after the oath ceremony.) </p>

<p>Everyone was subdued as we walked or took shuttle buses back to our cars. </p>

<p>For us, the next four years were a wonderful ride as from a distance we watched our sons grow apace in resilience, resourcefulness, responsibility, and overall maturity. The contrast between the young men we delivered to R-Day, 01 July 01, and the 2LTs onto whom we pinned butter bars on 28 May 05 was astounding, not just to us, but to all those who have known them.</p>

<p>To get a feel of R-Day 2005, go to <a href="http://www.usma.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.usma.edu&lt;/a> and click on R-Day Photo Album in the menu at the right center of the home page.</p>

<p>laxdad-
Could you break your post up into chapters? Its almost 1 in the morning here, and its a lot to absorb!</p>

<p>We kinda did the same thing w/o the Beast Barracks.</p>

<p>Originaloog wrote, "We kinda did the same thing w/o the Beast Barracks."</p>

<p>Good for you! Cold turkey withdrawal from any addiction is not easy. </p>

<p>The difference for West Point parents, I believe, is that they know that they will have no communication with their children beyond the very few contacts permitted. About the only way you will hear from your new cadet is if something serious is wrong ... like they have resigned from the academy or have been injured in training. It truly is a case of "no news is good news." In some ways, I think the first summer at West Point is harder on previously over-involved parents than it is on the new cadets. The new cadets are at least fully occupied ... the parents seem to writhe in anguish as they experience withdrawal. There are very active closed forums for West Point parents, including a special forum just for plebe parents, where parents exchange information, advice, and support. It can be painful to read the plebe-parent net as the time approaches for that first, brief phone call. "Should we stay home so we don't miss it?" "What if we're in a cell phone dead zone when s/he calls?" "What will our child think if we miss the call?" It might have been laughable if the anxiety were not so genuine.</p>

<p>A humorous aside: New cadets are required to send a letter or post card home at regular intervals. The first of these arrived for us a few days after R-Day. They were almost incoherent and indecipherable. It's amazing that one card even reached us. Written just before taps on R-Day night, the street name and number were wrong ... we had lived in the same house since he was born. Fortunately, the town spelling was close enough and the local postmaster got it to us. This from a couple of sophisticated and polished writers who scored near 800 on the verbal SAT. Later, when the boys tried to brush off Beast as "not so tough," we showed them these letters. They just laughed and allowed as they HAD been a bit disoriented that first week or so. Those letters are prized memorabilia today.</p>

<p>laxda, you say you were one of those overinvolved parents - as a teacher, i don't think so. You supported, gave your time, etc., that's what our kids and schools need. What the colleges are trying to avoid is the parent who makes all the decisions for the kid, calls the dean, the adcoms, etc., and drives everyone crazy, no allowing their kids to learn to be adults. You even joined the parents' group from West Point. Good for you! You didn't INTERFERE, you SUPPORTED. A parent like that is always appreciated. Sounds like you and the Army did a great job with your boys. And yes, maybe the Army told them what to do, but it also gave them a lot of responsibility and ethics, giving them tremendous life skills. Perhaps if more parents allowed their kids to grow those 4 yrs, there would be more mature, responsible adults. graduating than we now have. Congratulations!</p>

<p>Laxdad: Thoroughly enjoyed your story! Thanks for sharing!</p>

<p>I loved your story LaxDad. Please thank your sons (from me, a citizen) for their service to our country.</p>

<p>Laxdad, speaking as one whose nest is about to be emptied, you made me cry!</p>

<p>Yes, loved the story, laxdad. There was a Time magazine issue on the 'Class of 9/11', the West Point class that graduated this year and started on July 1, 2001. I loved that issue.</p>

<p>Thank your sons from me, a citizen, as well for their service and dedication. It takes a lot to become an officer in the military and your kids are extraordinary in every way.</p>

<p>whoa, I did not read all the posts, but that article makes me furious!!! first of all, yes, I am an overinvolved mother, and good thing! If the college my son attends, at 36,000$$$per year thank you, would not screw up constantly I would not have made one phone call! But the inept goofs that teach, administer and essentially run the college, but have absolutely no onus or accountability, truly deserve me to be there and in their face. they are lucky they just get phone calls. I am working full time, struggling and paying a huge amount of money and I expect the best for my son, no less. everytime I call they should call me maam, treat me with the utmost respect and dignity, and in turn do so with my son, (which is the biggest part of the problem, they don't want the parents involved, but they don't want to respect or listen to the students either). this is a different world, accountability and liability rules supreme. I never had the kinds of problems in college that my son is having now. I think each and every one of us on this board should email our representatives and have that utterly ridiculous law changed about the colleges not being able to give out information to the parents. I find it amazing that 4 months previous to my son entering college, his high school could give me all information I requested, but suddenly upon entering a college, I have no rights, my son is suddenly able to make complex and life altering decisions on his own and the colleges know they can hide behind that law. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, I am absolutely fuming!!!!!!</p>

<p>amith-
Can you elaborate a bit on what screw-ups you've experienced?</p>

<p>my daughter signed three letters of release- one saying I could get her bills :) and one stating that I could recieve her grades if asked, oh and another saying that I can be contacted for health emergencies
( I also have the phone # & email of her HA)
things do change once they turn 18 its true and it is kinda sily about the billing- but once they sign a release there shouldn't be a problem</p>

<p>emeraldkity4, did you sign standard forms provided by the college or did you draft your own releases? How/when did you obtain them from the college (if the releases are standard forms)?</p>

<p>On another note, I am finding myself having mixed feelings about how involved parents should be. Yes, we want them to learn to grow up -- which will never happen if we do everything for our kids. But it's not as tho' a child magically turns into an adult on their 18th birthday where one day prior, s/he was just a kid. </p>

<p>If my child were failing or struggling in college, I would want to know. In fact, it is precisely those kids whom we've urged to become self-sufficient and figure it out for themselves who might not seek out the help they need. It's fine to say that kids have to learn from their mistakes but at more than $40K a year, that's a pretty pricey lesson.</p>

<p>during freshman orientation maybe?
We also just signed a waiver of ins- verifying that we don't need the school ins.
as far as the others- they either come in the packet with all the bills- ins forms etc, or you just ask at the business office.
all they want is something that the student signs indicating that the school can communicate with their parents! imagine ;)</p>

<p>and yes it can be a very pricey lesson for both the student and parents
My daughter school requires that you ask for your grades- because my daughter thought she was doing fine until the very end of junior year, and because I didn't want the grades to be the important part of her education, I never requested them even though I could have( although I also didn't figure out which office would even cover that)</p>

<p>My S shares his grades willingly but also would do so just to get his car insurance discount. He makes us a copy to send in for him . Since he pays his car insurance himself he wants to make sure he gets his discount.</p>

<p>my d didn't get her grades- her school you have to make an appt with your advisor to get them, she met with her advisor but neither one spoke about grades apparently-
She also doesn't drive - she rides a bike- so no car ins :)</p>

<p>At S's school, the form was discussed with frosh during orientation - away from the parents, so kids could choose to sign waiver allowing parental access or not without parents hovering over shoulders, urging them to sign. S chose not to sign, so each semester when I need verification of enrollment for health insurance, etc., I must bug him for it.</p>

<p>Funny how this federal act came into being as a result of all the ranting done by us baby boomers back in the 1970's against people other than ourselves having access to our educational records (including our parents)....now we are all up in arms because we can't see our own children's records! I guess what goes around comes around. Enacted in 1974, it covers all schools receiving any federal funding and addresses students either 18 yrs. old or attending any school beyond high school.</p>

<p>Maybe it's due to these specs that schools view their contract to take money in exchange for providing room, board, and classes as being strictly with the student only. The account is set up in the student's name alone - they really don't care who's writing the checks...student, parents, grandma, etc....all money is credited to the student's account, therefore they believe that all contact should be with student only - no matter that mom and dad are footing nearly all the bill. And I guess they figure that as long as students are living on their own - be it across town or cross-country - they'd better figure out soon how to stand on their own two feet and speak up for themselves if they think something's not right with their grade, finaid, living quarters - whatever.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Funny how this federal act came into being as a result of all the ranting done by us baby boomers back in the 1970's against people other than ourselves having access to our educational records

[/quote]

actually, I think it came about as a result of ranting about 18 and 19 year olds being denied adult rights of all kinds at home, while dying as adults in Viet Nam. School records were not particularly the focus. Ages for drinking, voting, consenting to medical treatment, entering into contracts, etc. were all lowered to 18 at about the same time.</p>