<p>I'm sorry I even posted; first, Garland says she's going to beat her head against the wall because I don't choose to budget the same way she does, then she agrees with Cangel about trying to get your child a treat, then all the parents who disagree with "buck it up" child-rearing invite each other for coffee without me!<br>
Ah, cyberspace can be a lonely place. :-)</p>
<p>Garland, I think the important point about your post was not rewarding the child for sulking.</p>
<p>I guess I'm overreacting, but piecing together OP's posts - I get a picture of a child who has had a disappointment that was perhaps bigger than Mom anticipated, who is unhappy way longer than expected, and is acting somewhat out of character. Mom wonders if she should be worried. I begin to wonder about depression, why I brought up eating, sleeping and other behaviors. I also wonder if there is more in the kid's emotion going on - not "serious" like depression, but more typical grad/leavetaking adjustment issues.</p>
<p>I definitely agree that adult behavior and reactions can be taught/modeled (notice I said behavior, not feelings - I can't tell you how to feel, but I can show you what appropriate actions on those feelings would be) - AND that it should be time for this girl to move on, but just the fact that Mom has noticed she hasn't begun moving on, and is concerned raises red (?pink) flags to me.</p>
<p>This discussion reminds of the early difficult ones in parenting. Do you remember the first time, when as your toddler stood crying, someone told you, "Don't pick him/her up, he/she has to learn?" How about the first time you heard a father on the side of the soccer field yelling at his six year old, "Get tough Max, don't let him get on you!" and then commented to the adults around him, "Gotta teach them life is hard!" How about the first time your eleven year old (let's say you know she is hungry and tired and had a bad day) speaks to you sulkily out in public, "Yeah right Mom," and someone tells you, "Don't let her talk to you like that!"</p>
<p>I remember reading the childcare books trying to figure out my position. I remember it dawning on me, "Hey this is kind of politics! You are either a Democrat or a Republican! You sleep in bed with your kids and nurse them until they are five or you put them on a schedule!" Or not. In my case I had to pick a middle ground. Muddle my way through. I'm a Democrat, so I mostly err on the side of support and too much leeway. Oh well, right? I mean, they get who they get as parents and I'm never going to be Elizabeth Dole, so they will have to take what I can give them and then they can muddle along too.</p>
<p>So this how to deal with the kid coping with college rejection - same kind of issue. Buck up or coddle them. Or take a middle ground. And then find other parents who share your middle ground reasonably well and hang out with them so you form your own little village in the middle of the larger community.</p>
<p>We all really know there is no one right answer, no? </p>
<p>I think the only real issue is whether you can figure out in advance if Rice is or is not a place where she can be happy given a reasonable effort. Everything else about how to deal with the situation is parenting politics.</p>
<p>Mominsearch and Blossom,
Sounds like a plan! Thanks.</p>
<p>Blossom,my son is doing well at Wash U. He's had his ups and downs but overall it's a good experience. He had mono in the Fall and has a roommate situation that is trying but probably a good life lesson. We saw the writing on the wall but that was a decision we let him make. I talked to him last night and am happy to report that he is starting to have some of the kinds of experiences I foolishly thought were only possible at Yale. He went to a wine tasting party at a French professors house the other night ( probably not PC for underage drinkers). It was for all the students that are going to study in France this summer-giving them a little taste of the culture I suppose. He was recommending a particular bottle of wine for us to get - it made me smile because it seemed so adult and so French. And don't lecture me on alcohol consumption - this is a kid who calls his grandparents, something he rarely does, to escape the drunken brawl called WILD. He also recently had dinner at another professors house - gave him a chance to get to know some of the kids in his major better. </p>
<p>Fit is great if you can find it. Sometimes you have to work a little harder to find the fit. He never really pictured himself at Wash U socially-didn't really have a sense of it. Academically, yes. I remember dragging him to an info session the August before his sophomore year. It was convenient, a 15 minute drive from my mom's house and we would have blown it off if I would have let him follow his feelings in that instance. We treated it like a safety, another cardinal sin. Not out of arrogance, just sheer naivete. </p>
<p>Cangel,
There are different types of depression. I'm not a psychologist, but I've suffered from depression in the past and I'm pretty sure there is a difference between situational depression and chronic depression. I think the OP's daughter is having absolutely normal feelings which are probably amplified by making a final decision in the last week.</p>
<p>afan,
I think nothing in my previous post contradicts what you said in your own, so I agree with you. But the point is, this is all a matter of perception, & you cannot convince someone (especially ahead of time) that a particular choice is what they will or should desire. Some students would not agree with you that there are another "100 colleges" that are equally academically desirable as their favorites, even if objective reality contradicts their belief. But it was never my point to argue that, of course. It's simply not <em>all</em> about academics, for even the most academic of students. Probably 95 of those "other" ("equal") colleges are not equal in atmosphere, in size, in cost, in course offerings, in surrounding community, in extracurriculars, in internships, in gender breakdown, in religious affiliation, in housing/dining options, in technology support, in library hours, in campus security, in weather, in distribution requirements, in transportation convenience, in social atmosphere -- all of which to some degree or even to a great degree affect academic success, not to mention, obviously, personal happiness, which indirectly affects academic success.</p>
<p>Just as colleges juggle their acceptance lists for qualities of diversity with a small "d," and prioritize based partly on hooks & tips, so should the applicant, in my view. The "personal" element and the "other" factors should figure into every choice on one's college list. A college "builds" its freshman class with an eye to an organic whole; an applicant who similarly "builds" his or her list will be less likely to be in crisis on April 1st, May 1st, or September 1st.</p>
<p>None of this is meant to criticize the OP or her D; I hope it is not received that way; it is not intended that way. I care about applicants having options on April 2nd to re-weigh, re-balance, and re-rank. That allows the decision process to be more active, & consciously so. (You're doing the choosing, too, you're not just being chosen or un-chosen with your ego held hostage.) I mean this all constructively.</p>
<p>My reverse psychology idea was simply that if you tell the kid how awful and terrible it is, and how sorry you feel for her that she's relegated to choosing between Rice and the other two, sometimes the kid will get a llittle righteous and begin to develop a mindset to defend himself (herself), since the fact is that it is not awful. </p>
<p>I mean no offense to those who follow the softer approach by my callling it reverse psychology ( I swear, so help me God! ;) )</p>
<p>Reading the OP, I was struck by one thing: the D was rejected from the Ivies. Not a particular school...the Ivies. I didn't see any mention of a specific school and what it had to offer the D that Rice/Chicago/Wellesley didn't.</p>
<p>Is she sulking about the lack of the "Ivy" label as opposed to a school's fit?</p>
<p>Another thought: the OP might want to check the thread about a year after EA/ED deferral/rejection. The vast majority of students who missed their top choice [my D included, Yale] are extremely happy where they wound up and it's arguable that in terms of fit, many belong exactly where they are.</p>
<p>Sorry about coming in the middle of the movie, so bear with me..</p>
<p>No matter what we feel about the situation we must remain cognizant of the fact that Annaliesses feelings about not being admitted to her first choice school are very real feelings to her and as Liz and Blossom stated acknowledging and validating those feelings are the first step in helping her become more resilient and moving forward. How in the world will the child ever learn to overcome adversity if she has never faced it? This college rejection may be the first time that Annaliesse or her mom may have ever had to deal with adversity (it is certainly the first time they are doing it in this type of situation). </p>
<p>The great thing about our being 30+ is that we have lived through being 17. At 17, yes everything is a big deal and we feel that life, as we know it will be forever changed and the would is coming to an end (situation seems to be more compounded if we have girls). Guess what? when we were 17 our parents also told us that this too shall pass when we encountered one of lifes disappointments. At the time did it make us feel better? Not! All it did was make us feel that here was someone that is negating our feelings and doesnt get us? Now we know that the world isnt coming to an end, but telling us that at 17 was the equivalent of teaching a pig to dance- a waste of time and upsets the pig.</p>
<p>Oh mi gosh, would it be wonderful if there were a normal timetable to get over events in ones life?
Hey, disappointed about college? Its going to take you exactly 1 week, 4 days, 7 hours and 23minutes to get over it. If life were really only that simple. But its not. Everyone deals with things according to their own experiences and frame of reference as a backdrop.<br>
How, I deal with things is going to be different from how you deal with things. Some of were raised that every situation, was buck up, dont shed tears, be tough and some of us were not. Some of us have promised the Lord and a few other folk that we would never put our kids through some of the craziness that we had to live through. Is any one more right in this type of situation? No, it just makes us different. Ho w many of us can attest first hand that they dont deal with all of their children the same because e what works for Jimmy does not work when dealing wth Suzy</p>
<p>For Annaliesse, this is going to pass so give her the time to process it all (an no I dont think shes had enough time by the plain and simple fact that during the first week of April the acceptances and rejections are being thrown at you all at once). She does need some time to let go all of her what might have beens and deal with the here and no w. In time she is going to realize that she has some great choices and who knows, this time next year, her mom may be writing to tell us that she loves Rice or that she is looking to transfer.</p>
<p>This may seem OT, but it's not....
I never participated in schools sports as a kid, but all three of my kids are jocks. I've become a firm supporter of youth sports primarily for one reason: the players always lose. I don't mean they lose every game/match/meet or whatever, but they always lose some of them. Or they don't make the team, or whatever. Bottom line, they get experience in dealing with disappointment. As I said to my daughter the other day (for the millionth time, I'm sure) "Nobody bats 1000." (She's a soccer player, but she got it.)
This is a disappointment for the OP's daughter, but it won't be the last one. Disappointment, anger, frustration, all reasonable. But then you have to deal with it and move on. I agree with acknowledging the validity of the feelings, but after a month? Time to acknowledge, validate, and then talk (adult-to-adult-like) about the next steps, which includes (I'm afraid) a certain amount of "bucking up". And I'll repeat the cogent comment from Afan from a different thred:
"Students should not be devastated by adverse admission outcomes. Not because they should plan better to avoid it, but because there is so little at stake."</p>
<p>I think we need to be careful that this conversation does not make those that feel it is time to move on out to be parents that want to repress feelings or need our kids to be on some strick bereavement schedule. As a parent, I am about as emotional as they come, and I consistently battle to keep my feelings and reactions to life in perspective. I work to do the same with my children. Dealing with disappointments and with victories in life is what growth and maturity and balance are all about, and it takes a lifetime to learn it--if we ever do.
I think that there are 2 issues with this particular situation that reasonable adults (and good parents) may have concerns about. The first is the elapsed length of time since the disappointing news--5 weeks. Tears, hugs, and maybe a small splurge (thoughtful card?) are certainly in order after a trauma of the rejection notice. However, I think it is reasonable to perceive an over-reaction to the situation when, 5 weeks later, the child is still letting it be known that they are so unhappy. I respectfully disagree with those that say there is no timeline for grieving. Judgements about priorities and what constitues balance in life need to be made on a daily basis. That is why we try to get advice from others--to make some type of reasonable judgement.
The other issue in my mind is that perhaps the entire college app. process has been blown out of perspective when the perceived loss of a dream school (or the Ivies in general??!) can be this devastating to a child. This is our third time thru the process and I am a true believer that "What people make of their lives depends much more on who they are, how hard they work, and what fields they choose, rather than where they go to college." (Thanks, afan). I do believe there are many right schools for most of our kids--many more than we believe. As much as I love CC and thank it for all I have learned here, threads like this make me wonder if the emphasis we put on the college application process creates unrealistic expectation for future happiness and "success".<br>
Best of luck to you and your D, A...Mum.<br>
PS-I consider myself a coddler too.</p>
<p>A different suggestion: ask your daughter if she wants to defer Rice to take a gap year and spend it working, volunteering or traveling on some sort of organized program. Her reaction to the suggestion may tell you what is really going on: is it RICE she's reacting to, or just the concept of college? Your comments about your daughter saying she needs a break from activity this summer may be telling. Maybe, just maybe, she is not yet quite ready for college, any college. A year of maturing might help --- either for Rice, or another school.</p>
<p>Caseyatbat said, "I respectfully disagree with those that say there is no timeline for grieving. Judgements about priorities and what constitues balance in life need to be made on a daily basis. That is why we try to get advice from others--to make some type of reasonable judgement."</p>
<p>I don't think this thread would have taken the trajectory that it has if some of the first comments had not been so judgemental about how the OP's daughter feels. I agree it is good to get advice, but when comments veer towards judgement of the person's feelings, a red flag goes up in my mind. It is appropriate to make positive suggestions about courses of action this mom can take as many posters have done, but it is out of line to judge the feelings of this daughter and add guilt,shame and ridicule to boot.</p>
<p>What happened to the infamous CC tolerance? A brand new poster, posting her concerns about her daughter, gets the beat down, the head banging against the wall? Because her daughter can't get over a sullen period quickly enough to suit some folks?</p>
<p>Good one.</p>
<p>My S2 and I had a series of debates bordering on arguments yesterday, but I didn't post that. Why? Because it was no big deal. His hormones and my insomnia.</p>
<p>Let's give posters, especially new posters, a little leeway. Let's assume that if a parent takes the time to post a description of a sullen child, that parent is probably intelligent enough to know the difference between No Big Deal and something Out of the Ordinary.</p>
<p>Cc parents, let's give A's mom some credit, some respect. Let's assume she knows the difference. Otherwise, she wouldn't have posted--just as I didn't post about my argumentative boy.</p>
<p>Clearly, a week after the decision was posted, a month after the disappointment arrived, she's worried the sulleness might be something worse. Been there? </p>
<p>There is an amazing variety of human. Some are resilient and some are not. Some resist depression and some are easily tipped. 17-20 is a critical juncture for mental health. A's mother is doing her duty by paying attention to a sulleness that is OUT OF THE ORDINARY. </p>
<p>Buck Up? Get Thee to a Nunnery/Homeless Shelter? For a sulleness that is OUT OF THE ORDINARY? Why? Because it was Yale that tipped the D into that state? </p>
<p>CC parents say they don't expect perfection from 17 year olds, but obviously, many do.</p>
<p>Lighten up and be nice.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Lighten up and be nice.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I would love for this to have been posted on my "small town" thead too. </p>
<p>~b.</p>
<p>You know, it probably would have been helpful had we asked what it was exactly that your d. thought she could find a Yale that she wouldn't find at Rice, UChicago, or Wellesley (or just Rice, if it makes a difference.) I mean Yale is a great place, but there were all kinds of areas with which, upon visiting, we were less than impressed. If there is something particular that her choice lacks, it is possible sometimes to make up for the deficit in other ways (especially, as you noted, Rice is already substantially less expensive.) </p>
<p>If not, then I wouldn't even bring it up, as it would just be rubbing salt in the wounds.</p>
<p>I didn't read every single posting on this whole thread, so someone may have mentioned this already. I didn't notice if the OP mentioned where she was geographically located in relation to Rice. The disappointment may not be Yale vs Rice, but perhaps Rice is really far from home, and your daughter simply doesn't want to be that far away. I think 17 year olds often feel silly--after they've applied to all these schools--actually admitting that it's the distance, not the school that is upsetting them. That's just a guess, but you might want to ask about it. Again, sorry if this has already been suggested. I didn't read all the postings.</p>
<p>One of the things that distresses me in this thread is the implication that, by encouraging a child to move forward with either a paid or volunteer job, her feelings are being ignored. One can certainly grieve while working. But - the positive thing about a job - is that it is going to be the center of attention, not the grief of Ivy rejection. Especially if a child has never worked, the first job provides a whole different environment, a coworker or boss to gripe about, a glimpse (perhaps) into the daily lives of those who have never attended college. And a wage earned - as opposed to money * given * - is a tangible benefit. </p>
<p>The benefits to the OP's daughter would be different with a volunteer position - but perhaps even more positive. The community would benefit! The job would garner some of the emotional energy currently being drained by the rejection. The people she helped would (with any luck at all) value her and give her positive feedback.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The poster never said that her daughter wasn't a volunteer or an employee.</p></li>
<li><p>That was the first time the voluntering has been described in such a positive manner. Prior to that, the volunteering seemed to be sanctimoniously suggested as a cure for some sort of self-indulgence.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>A couple of years ago I was diagnosed with a condition that required immediate major surgery, or I would die. After leaving the physician's office, I had a meeting with a member of my church. I told her how scared I was, and how much I was hurting, but I also admitted that I should not be so wrapped up in my troubles, since at least my condition was operable, while other people dealt with inoperable, terminal issues with more grace than I was exhibiting. She shared some very wise words that have stuck with me. She said, just because other people feel great pain, does not take away our right to feel our own.</p>
<p>This kid hasn't just been rejected from her "dream school" - she's been rejected from her dream, period. Some kids use the term "dream school" lightly, in place of "favorite". Obviously this student truly did have a dream, and her school was part of it. In a way, she may be having a similar reaction to a person who goes through a divorce: her vision of her future was rejected, not just her.</p>
<p>I'm on the side of blossom and lizscup. She has a right to her feelings. Will she get over it? Yes, but no one knows when, since we don't know the depth of her dream; and, one of the posters said, you don't know what other stresses she's going through right now that could interfere with her self-healing.</p>
<p>All we can do is teach our kids as they grow, how to deal with the real world. Then when it hits them, whether it's a rejection, or a divorce, or the death of a loved one, we've done what we could to teach them, and all we can do now is hug them, and listen to them, and sympathize with them, and share a bit of wisdom. But by the time they're this age, they have to bring themselves out of it. We don't have it in our power to give them second balloons.</p>
<p>So anxiousmom - my heart goes out to you. After reading all these comments - all well meant, regardless of how different they appear - you will make react in the way that feels right for you and your D. All the best to her and to you.</p>
<p>I agree with lizschup (#92 ). Feelings aren't right or wrong. They just are. And everyone processes loss in his or her own way and time.</p>