<p>Goodness knows if it’s not the parent’s who teach about the “money card”, future employers will surely do it and the consequences will be far more dire. There are no money trees out there, at least not that I have found! </p>
<p>Yes to this,
</p>
<p>I think that if at all possible you need to give children, even adult children, a way to earn their way back into the benefits of the family, financial and otherwise. Our family does not reward bratty behavior, period. Nor do we consider things like our son’s cel phone or use of the car to be rights, they are earned.</p>
<p>mom2collegekids–It was probably just the impression I got from skimming. I didn’t read a lot of the earlier posts.</p>
<p>And it’s not just this thread, it’s often the first thing mentioned in other threads. (If a parent with a problem doesn’t mention money in their initial post, it is quickly asked about afterwards. Even in student created threads their parents almost always pay the money card)</p>
<p>All 20 years old disrespectful sometime. Do not take it personally, tell he that you do not understand her when is talks this way…and we do not have “house” rules for 20 years olds, they are useless. There are couple for our 10/12 years old grandkids: no whining and no crying are allowed, period. No other rules, do not want to deal with rules, summer is for R&R, not for rules. Enough rules at work and other places, not in my house. This is my honest advice, applicable or not you decide.</p>
<p>*Quote:
I clearly remembering my father “playing the money card” and it made a difference to me. I altered my behavior, and matured a bit, too.</p>
<p>=====================
Pugmad response:
Goodness knows if it’s not the parent’s who teach about the “money card”, **future employers will surely do it and the consequences will be far more dire. **There are no money trees out there, at least not that I have found! *</p>
<p>This is what it’s all about! If we don’t get this thru their still-developing brains, they can become older adults with spotty work histories because they’ll think their job/paycheck is an entitlement. They need to know that being civil to the boss (and others) is part of life. </p>
<p>And, again…this is not about “power of the purse” in some kind of devious, hyper-controlling way. It’s not like the parents are saying, “you must go to OUR church on Sundays otherwise no more money” or “We don’t care that you don’t like engineering, you’re going to major in it and that’s final” Or “we don’t like the nationality of that BF so break up with him or else!” Or “you will go to a top 10 school or we’re not paying!”</p>
<p>We shouldn’t be confusing crazy controlling ways with simple teaching kids that there are consequences in life to bratty behavior.</p>
<p>If you want to enjoy your house and your kid, you choose one way. If you want to teach and control, you choose another way. You are the only one who can see clearly the situation that you want to pursue being a family unit. Everybody is different, everybody has different kids and different goals for their kids and different role for their relationship with them. The way you treat your kid will be the way she will treat others (including her future husband and kids, and you) later on in her more mature state.</p>
<p>Has she been running the show since childhood? (ie, like most of the kids you see on “supernanny”)?
If so, you’ve dug your own hole, and I highly suggest family counseling/individual counseling to figure out how to be the parent, even at this late date.</p>
<p>If the ‘treating us like dogs’ is new, then I’d be worried/looking for what happened to cause it.</p>
<p>In either case, I would NOT be her doormat. And for those suggesting ‘not to bring money into it’–I think ya’ll are missing the point. </p>
<p>The money (in my mind) is not about power in this case. Shutting off the money tap is essentially a consequence of the D’s actions. If you’ve honestly discussed and made clear that treating you that way and ignoring the basic rules is not acceptable, and she’s still being outright nasty–then the choices are, tell her her disregard of your feelings have consequences, and no more financing of x,y, and z is consequence #1. No yelling, no screaming, just a matter of fact. You treat us like this, and this is what happens.</p>
<p>Tell her if she chooses to follow the rules and to be civil and adult, you will reconsider this consequence.</p>
<p>Good luck. You don’t deserve to be treated this way. (by the way, consequence #2 would be telling her she needs to find another place to live…on her own dime).</p>
<p>@OP, I would kick her to the curbs, if she was my D. I would also beat myself up for raising a kid like this. I am sorry for being hash and not sugar-coating, but life does not tolerate spoiled brats. If you do not teach her, the future bosses and colleagues will.
Good luck.</p>
<p>If you pay much attention to this type of hormonal waves, they will learned to manipulate you, then the real trouble begins. Tantrums are to be ignored whenever they start (usually at 2). When 2 years old rolling on a floor in her hysteria (not hurting, but demanding), walking away from her works like a charm. If you do not do it, you will have a drama queen in your houes (or a king for that matter). Well, some people enjoy to be entertained by drama queen, it depends what you want in your house.</p>
<p>Paperplane said what I was thinking about whether the behavior is new or just a continuation and/or escalation of prior disrespectful behavior. D2 has a friend who speaks disrespectfully to her parents and my D has been shocked by her content and tone of discourse. Wouldn’t happen in our house, she says, and she’s right. </p>
<p>But, better late than never to try to change the course of the stream. After all, you could have another 50 years of discourse to get through. You don’t want to be dealing with this kind of attitude for another half a century!</p>
<p>The most enlightening post on this thread for me is Consolation’s post #23.</p>
<p>Consolation is in the unusual position of having a child in college who is not financially dependent on his parents.</p>
<p>All of us expect our offspring to become financially independent of us at some point, but for Consolation it happened earlier than for most. </p>
<p>An interesting question to consider is “What happens then?” How do parents and their grown children relate to one another after the legal authority of parents over minors is gone and the financial control that most parents have over college students has ended? This is a new stage in a family’s life, yet it is possible that old problems (such as someone being obnoxious to other family members) might still exist. How can a family deal with those problems? </p>
<p>I guess I see a bigger issue of “control” differently than Dap.
Dap sees expecting a young adult not to “bite the hand that feeds him” or else find a new hand to feed him as control. [I am paraphrasing his position.]</p>
<p>I see more. If a young adult lives in my home, and tells me through his words or actions that he can behave any way he wants, and I must continue giving time, advice, food, clothes, shelter, help, money, gifts, etc., to him, then he is trying to control me. If my wife did that, she would be trying to control me too. As an adult I can make other choices- other than just “taking it”. I’d have other options, and so would a young adult that might choose not to be civil.</p>
<p>It isn’t an age thing(for adults). It is a respect thing. If I am treated rudely while I’m passing out gifts, I may be hesitant to continue to give out gifts. Similarly, touching on a past example of mine, is my wife unfairly trying to control me if she objects that I date other women twice a week? Or is she entitled to my fidelity because we’re married and deserves to be treated better? Or if my boss gives me an extra cash bonus for higher than average sale, is he unfairly trying to control me- or merely offering incentive for particularly good behavior? I see a big difference between control and encouragement.
In a case of withdrawing cash gifts(imo as a last resort) it isn’t control imo. The young adult can still behave any way he wants. He just can’t force the parent to behave the way the student wants. Forcing the parent to behave the way the student wants would be unfairly controlling.</p>
<p>And as far as “house rules”, no rules are necessary if all have an innate sense of what is right, fair, and responsible behavior; and if we all behaved accordingly. But many of us don’t have that, and choose to behave inappropriately. For adults, there is often a comeuppance for inappropriate behavior.</p>
<p>For me, the most cogent and compelling posts here are from collegeshopping and mom2collegekids.</p>
<p>May I broaden the scope a bit to comment that 18-22 year olds (if they don’t know it already) need to learn, not only that ill-treatment has a negative effect on their PARENTS’ inclination to treat them with support, nurturing, caring concern and kindness…but that the same holds true for significant others, future spouses, and friends.</p>
<p>It is not only with parents and in the workplace that these lessons are critical. Who among us routinely tolerates being “treated like a dog” by a spouse or friend…and continues to nurture, care for, and support (financially or otherwise) that person?</p>
<p>Those who raised your hands, consider whether therapy might help you break free from that unhealthy relationship.</p>
<p>Does viewing it this way help us get closer to consensus about the OP’s daughter? It’s not about the money per se…it’s about her learning that when you routinely treat people badly, the result is that you lose their friendship, caring, nurturing, support and, ultimately, their presence in your life.</p>
<p>Once an adult child is not longer financially dependent, then the same boundaries apply. There is either mutual respect by that point or there is not. </p>
<p>I love my child more than my own life but while I am alive, I’m not subjecting myself to people who treat me poorly. If my child decided that I was not worth treating well, then once I was sure it was not a medical problem, that relationship would be over. I would never give up hope that things could get better, of course, but I’d much rather be alone than be in poor company. </p>
<p>I truly do not understand people who volunteer to be doormats to anyone, be it spouse, child or stranger. Life is too short and I’m worth more than that. It’s one of my highest hopes that I have taught my child the same.</p>
<p>*May I broaden the scope a bit to comment that 18-22 year olds (if they don’t know it already) need to learn, not only that ill-treatment has a negative effect on their PARENTS’ inclination to treat them with support, nurturing, caring concern and kindness…but that the same holds true for significant others, future spouses, and friends.</p>
<p>It is not only with parents and in the workplace that these lessons are critical. Who among us routinely tolerates being “treated like a dog” by a spouse or friend…and continues to nurture, care for, and support (financially or otherwise) that person?*</p>
<p>Momofsongbird is right. If anyone had posted a somewhat similar story that included very generous financial support but had used the word sibling, in-law, or friend in place of daughter, everyone would be saying that this cannot be tolerated…and that financial support should be cut back to just basic support (food, shelter, basic clothing). If it were a spouse, people here would be recommending good divorce attorneys. ( I do want to reiterate that I do think tuition for this child should be continued.)</p>
<p>It just isn’t smart to enable this behavior. </p>
<p>Gosh, if I were 20 and I saw a peer repeatedly treat her parents rudely and I knew that they were very financially generous, my gut would tell me that they should cut back on their generosity a bit. It’s just logical.</p>
<p>Frankly, financial has nothing to do with behavior. If it does, that means that we should be treating other OK only if we financially depend on him/her? But again, it goes back to how you personally feel about certain behavior, if it bothers you or you understand that maybe you yourself behaved not so appropriately at this age. You might be way ahead of the game by ignoring than by paying too much attention. Paying attention might lead to other side seeing your weekness and learn how to manipulate you, while ignoring and gong your merry way no matter what might say to a person that being rude does not work. And again it goes back to how you want to spend time with your kids and family. Life’s #1 priority in my book is to enjoy as much as possible.</p>
<p>Money can have a direct relationship to behavior. My son with who I have “respect” issues is financially on his own, but his behavior toward me is directly related to what he sees as “fair” when it comes to his siblings. Facebook certainly had thrown the majority of mystery out the window and he has a birdseye view on most members of the family. He some how cannot seperate age in his entitlement fits of rage when he wants to make a stand that 11 year old brother got a new playstation for his birthday, and can’t wrap his around the fact that I didn’t buy two, one for him, one for brother. (And yes we buy him birthday gifts…and they are typically not cheap) At his brother’s wedding last year, he spent the whole night complaining about all the money spent and how he expected a check for that amount within thirty days. (I would be in the grave before that happened) None of our other kids are like this. He can’t seem to grasp that he makes good money and that he truly throws it away playing big shot with his friends and then complains that everyone in the family has nice things (which they have saved for, etc) and he has “nothing.” I see what he does with his money because when I was paying his bills, he would blow through $1500 a month eating out and that was every bit of his disposable income. He saved nothing, invested in nothing (he says he was investing in his friends…the same friends that won’t help him when he needs it, so he calls his brothers or father) He is simply a piece of work. Will he ever change? I say no. Can I change the way I react to him and what I allow inside the walls of my home…YES!</p>
<p>Marian, I just want to say that your posts here really changed my way of thinking. My DS lived at home for a short time after his undergrad degree. while he was here we tried not to play the money card but really if I am honest with myself it was in the back of my mind. He has since moved out of the area and is not financially dependent in any way. In fact I have no knowledge of his finances. I find myself forging a new relationship and trying to figure out how that looks. so far it has been fine but i dont hear from him as often as i would like. In our society money is power and I was guilty of behaving that
way. your posts really made me think about that. Thank you!</p>