<p>^LOL, Oldfort! Being a grandmother is a much easier and enjoyable job than being a mother!</p>
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<p>Iām seeing the camelās nose edging under the edge of the tent again when you say that as a āself supporting adultā you make the rules.</p>
<p>It troubles me that you give the rule-making power to āself supporting adults,ā not to the owners of the home (or those whose names are on the lease, if it is a rented home).</p>
<p>My husband and I own our home jointly. When our children were young, I worked only part-time and could not have been considered āself-supporting.ā Does that mean that during that period in my life, I did not have the right to an equal say in the determination of house rules? Itās my house, too ā there is a deed that says so. </p>
<p>Similarly, during their retirement years, my divorced father and his never-married sister decided to lower their expenses by sharing a condo, which they bought jointly. My fatherās income during retirement was considerably higher than my auntās, and he paid substantially more than half the expenses (he was not willing to lower his standard of living to the level at which my aunt could have paid half). Does this mean that my aunt should not have had an equal say in the determination of house rules? </p>
<p>There is a danger in saying that power in relationships between adults sharing a home ā whether they are spouses, unmarried couples, parents and children, siblings, roommates, or any other combination of human beings ā should be based on income. It is not a principle that can be applied only to college-age children ā it is also one that applies in other situations where most of us would not be comfortable with it. </p>
<p>This does not mean that parents cannot impose rules on their college-age children. It just means that income should not be the basis for those rules. I think there should be some other basis, and ownership of the home (or having oneās name on the lease) could be that basis.</p>
<p>My rising senior son was diagnosed in first grade with ODD (oppositional defiant disorder). We were āfortunateā in that his ODD only really extended to school and hw and that he was always fairly compliant with chores, etc. As he got older, his dx was changed to āSchool based anxietyā also known as paralyzing perfectionism.</p>
<p>One book that I have used over the years with him is āThe Defiant Childā by Douglas Riley. Rileyās premise is that we as parents have to provide food, clothing and shelter for our children (the book is geared to younger kids, but the principles can be adapted) but it doesnāt have to be the best stuff. Nutritious food choices are offered but no treats, child is provided with 2 to 3 pairs of pants/skirts/dresses and a few basic t-shirts plus socks and underwear, the room is very basic with no electronics, TV, etc. The child is always warned before something is taken away and kids (usually teens) can wind up sleeping on a mattress in a room with no door. The child earns back privileges as their compliance improves.</p>
<p>We never had to go to those extremes with our son because he was always well-behaved at home. However, this year and last, it was only the threat of summer school and no paying summer job at camp that induced him to hand in his physics labs (he wound up with a 98 on the state test) or do his final AP Euro essay (got a 5 on the AP exam). </p>
<p>Until the consequences of not complying are more onerous than the perceived benefits of continuing to fight about it, the child will not choose to comply.</p>
<p>Good luck - you may have to pull the plug or tell her to stay out of town during breaks.</p>
<p>sorry you misunderstood my post marian(your post 142). I ask you to re-read my post.
The key was making rules āin your own homeā compared to rules in someone elseās home. Clearly, my post was intended to show the owners can make the rules in their own home.</p>
<p>Younghoss, it looked to me as though you were saying that āself-supportingā and āin your own homeā were both criteria that had to be fulfilled in order for a person to have decision-making power.</p>
<p>If thatās not what you meant, then I misunderstood you.</p>
<p>Iām sure with a re-read, and keeping in mind that it was in response to a poster saying he didnāt like parents making rules āin his own homeā youāll see my meaning. āIn his own homeā was the key phrase I was responding to. Were the parents really trying to make rules in his own home, or was it rules in their own home? Big difference.
What makes it āhis ownā home?
When I picture a young adult in his own home, I picture someone working to support his new apartment(although I realize it isnāt limited to just that). I donāt picture him staying in the same room in parentsā home that he stayed in when he was 10. Or me, at about 50, in my own home, wife and I on the deed- we pay a mortgage here. Iām not living in my parentsā home. If I lived in my parentsā home, I wouldnāt be in my own home; Iād be in their home.</p>
<p>Califa, Iām sorry for what you are going through (but glad that our discussion on this thread is of use to someone).</p>
<p>I think that you need to assert yourself lovingly but appropriately with your D for the sake of your own mental health. If she runs off to the cousinās house, so be it. I would NOT demand that she text you every day while sheās there: I completely understand why you would like her to, but from the opposite end it does look excessive. What will happen if the cousin eventually denies her something and she starts with this kind of behavior? The cousin will probably throw her out.</p>
<p>I donāt know if there is anything you can do about it at this point, but I donāt think you should have given in over the apartment whether you can afford it or not. College students should be expected to live in dorms and put up with other people, IMHO, at least at first. Itās part of the learning experience. (Even if you have a single.) It would have been an excellent lesson for your D.</p>
<p>Consolation is so right(147). Not all college learning is in the classroom.</p>
<p>She wouldnāt even apply for the dorm (she lived in a single freshman year and said she hated it, so she says she absolutely will not live with roommates), so thereās nothing I can do about it this year. What do you think I should do for next year? I wouldnāt get her a car and now she has been getting after me that for the price of the apartment sheās getting, if I had bought her a car she could have gotten a cheaper place with a longer drive.</p>
<p>She may have a point, but the bottom line is that I just donāt feel like buying a car for someone who has treated me like dirt. Of course I will always love her, but after the last tirade, which started over something really trivial but led to the usual cursing and namecalling, I feel like sheās crossed a line. Really wish I could afford counseling for myself. This family situation is literally making me sick.</p>
<p>Looking ahead, do you think that next year I should give her a choice of living in the dorm or dropping out? Problem with that is she knows I wouldnāt follow through on it. What I could do is say this amount of money covers a dorm. If you can find a car (including insurance) and apartment that costs less, Iāll consider it, otherwise itās the dorm. She will have a whole year to look around. I doubt if sheāll be able to find anything like that. </p>
<p>No one ever told me that parenting just gets harder and harder.</p>
<p>D1 wanted to live in one of the nicest apartment buildings senior year. The apartment cost 1200/mon vs 7 or 800/mon at school. We decided to give her what her schoolās room and board would cost, and let her deal with it. She ended up in getting a sublet at that building for 950/mon, and she used some of her food money to make up the difference. </p>
<p>You may want to do the same. Give her what her schoolās room and board would cost you, let her decide where she wants to live and if she could afford a car. Car insurance for a college student could be close to 2k a year. Follow through is key when it comes to dealing with kids.</p>
<p>My wife believes it is truly Godās Will that young people are so hard to get along with as they near the point of being mature enough to become self sufficient. It is her belief that conflict is there purposely to make the separation and āleaving the nestā an easier and cleaner process for all involved. Not to push her beliefs on all here, but just to say that belief gave her comfort during our sonās snotty years back then.</p>
<p>ĀProblem with that is she knows I wouldnāt follow through on it.Ā</p>
<p>That pretty much sums up this whole thread, doesnĀt it. Maybe too late for a 20-year old, but if thereĀs any younger parents reading this, hereĀs some unsolicited advice. </p>
<p>1) Always follow through.
2) To make #1 easier, never threaten a consequence you are not
prepared to follow through on. </p>
<p>My go-to line when our kids would throw tantrums or start to cry to get their way was: </p>
<p>ĀYou better come up with a different idea for getting what you want. Because this will NEVER get you what you wantĀ. </p>
<p>And it never did. It was hard as #$%# in the moment. But, they did stop throwing tantrums to get their wayā¦</p>
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<p>Before issuing this ultimatum, you may need to find out whether students who have moved off-campus are guaranteed housing if they move back on-campus. They may not be, in which case you might be forcing her to drop out.</p>
<p>Iād say thatāassuming you can afford itāit would be reasonable for you to say that the cost of a dorm room plus reasonable meal plan is $X, and that is how much you will contribute towards her living expenses. If she does not choose a dorm, Iād be inclined to divide the total into a regular monthly payment, rather than giving her lump sums. Iād avoid the lump sum situation, because I fear that she would buy a car with it and then be unable to stretch the remaining fund to cover her actual expenses, which would of course include insurance for a young personāmucho $$āand the cost of gas and maintenance and repairs, which is CERTAIN to be more than she bargains for. If that happened, she would be back to you with her hand out, expecting to be bailed out, and you would have another fight on your hands. Iām not certain, but Iām inclined to think that you should also tell her to present you with a budget showing that the income you will provide with be enough to cover food, utilities, and rent. (I would consider giving her enough up front to cover whatever security and utility deposits are required, but that would reduce the amount available for the rest of the year. I would not count on getting any security deposits you provide back.)</p>
<p>If you canāt afford that much, then decide how much you CAN afford and give her the figure to work with. If she needs to make more money she can work this summerātemping is always a possibility, even if she canāt find a regular job in this marketāand she can get an on campus job working 10 or so hours per week. That should be enough to provide her with $300-400 or so per month in income. Almost ANY kid who does not have health issues or is not a D1 football player or something like thatāthatās a job in itselfāshould be able to manage up to 10 hours per week in an on-campus job that does not involve commuting time.</p>
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<p>Your wife may have a point.</p>
<p>And our state governments have helped the situation by imposing ever-increasing numbers of hours of practice driving, with the parent in the passenger seat, for teenagers who want to get driverās licenses. This experience is so unpleasant for many families that it definitely makes āleaving the nestā easier.</p>
<p>Can you even afford to buy her a car and insure it? If so, take the money that you would have spent on a car and use it for counseling. You really could use it to help you deal with this situation.</p>
<p>Once again I agree with Consolation. The best choice isnāt to give student 2 choices- A or B, but rather, tell student what you can afford to donate toward housing, and how, then let student do search and research to determine all her options then select what student thinks is best one.
This benefits both parties as parent will donate just what they are comfortable with, and student makes choices, and learns life lessons, whether studentās choice proves to be good or bad.</p>
<p>That approach worked and diffused the housing discussion for all of ours. We calculated the monthly equivalent of the colleges room and board and that was what they got. If they had to have a 12 month lease then the housing was divided by 12 and the board by 9. If they found a summer sublet they got more during the next year. DD wanted a nicer apartment so decided to work part time as a life guard at school to support her car and the extras she wanted. It was not a lot but made the difference. The others found cheaper apartments. Took the fight out of the entire process.</p>
<p>This question is nearly impossible to answer without a lot more information. I tend to agree that the kid is probably way out of line, but maybe the rules being set for a 20 year old are way out of line. Is there an 8:00 pm curfew or something ridiculous like that?</p>
<p>Without knowing too much though, Iād say counseling is a big waste of money and is only going to further the hostility that has been created. Have a talk with her and get to know what the real problem is before even considering any sort of therapy when it seems pretty clear that the kid is just missing her independence. </p>
<p>Maybe there are too many rules for a 20 year old being set in place, and maybe she is just being ungrateful.</p>
<p>Feel free to add in some more details OP.</p>
<p>*Thanks. Mom2collegekids, youāre right that there is no father in the house. </p>
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<p>Is any of her anger because her dad isnāt in her home? Does she think that there would be more money if her dad was there? Is her dad in her life? Her behavior is unacceptable, but is it possible that she is punishing you in some way because her dad is not part of the immediate family or in her life? </p>
<p>It sounds like she has a very affluent social circle. that can just encourage this behavior as long as she doesnāt have a healthy image of your financial situation. Some kids can handle the disparities because they know that their parents are doing the best they can. Some kids think itās their parents āfaultā that they donāt have what other have, so they take it out on the parent(s). </p>
<p>I remember a girl from a large family who behaved this way because she believed that the family budget would be more generous to her IF she didnāt have these other siblings. Her other siblings didnāt behave this way, but she did. I know that her mom frequently said things like, āI canāt buy you an extra pair of shoes because then Iād have to also buy them for your siblingsā¦and I canāt afford to buy 6 new pairs of shoes that arenāt needed. We can only buy what is needed.ā Hearing that kind of answer enough times may have been the budget-reality truth, but to a kid who wants some of the āextrasā that others have, that can conjure up resentment. </p>
<p>however, your D does have extras. Sheās going to a sleep -away schoolā¦that is a luxury. Perhaps sheās not aware that most kids do NOT get to āgo awayā to school. Most have to commute to their local CC or state school.</p>
<p>Where does your D get the money to escape to this OOS cousin? That said, it might be ok for her to go there for the summer. That cousin may QUICKLY tire of her. (I could tell you a story of such a thingā¦one relative thought that one set of parents were being too strict with their high school D. Well, D came to live with that relativeā¦and (ha ha), the relative quickly realized what a brat D really was. LOL I totally enjoyed saying āI told you so,ā when that relative called and complained about our niece. Normally, I wouldnāt be so snotty, but I had warned/begged that relative to stop criticizing the parents. </p>
<p>Sheās always been very strong willed and confrontational, and Iām more a pacifist and want to avoid arguments, so thereās a mismatch of personalities and a real power struggle going on here.</p>
<p>Ahhhā¦so sheās learned to Alpha Dog you. Hereās some of what my sis wrote in an email this morning: </p>
<p>*This mom cannot parent out of fear. She has to do what is right no matter what her daughter is threatening. The threats are idle threats. The daughter is a paper tiger. The daughter is not going to disown her; itās not like the mom has been abusive or cruel.</p>
<p>The mom should also ignore the "temper tantrums,ā just as you would a young child ā calmly walk away/leave. Mom needs to remain calm, not become āangryā, or āscaredā as a result of daughters outbursts or demands for more āthingsā. This just gives daughter more power and control.</p>
<p>This dynamic between mom and daughter is nothing new, I would bet. Daughter is used to āAlpha Doggingā her mom ā and the mom backs down. The mom needs to know that she needs to be consistent and resolved and regain the benevolent and loving, but strong, Alpha Dog position. Her daughter believes she will be able to ābreakā her mom. Daughter will try raising the ante with other threats or other bad behavior, and mom might get scared again and want back down or give in, but Mom needs to be strong. The D will get the message.<br>
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<p>My sis said that sheāll write more to me later. I will tell her that the dad isnāt in the home because that may somehow be a part of this.</p>