<p>It’s probably easier to wear down a single parent… since no advantage of unified force. On the other hand, no complications from divided parent. </p>
<p>OP - Good luck holding the line. It’s not easy.</p>
<p>Mom2collegekids, thank you so much. You’re right that a lot of her anger towards me is that she grew up without a father. Once when she was angry at me she said “it’s not like I have a father to turn to.” Her father and I split up when she was a baby (he was an alcoholic who would not get help). I had her go to counseling when she was younger but she resisted and now I can’t force her. The only way I got her to go in the first place was to make it a condition of driving privileges. </p>
<p>If I could afford it, I’d go myself to get some help on how to deal with this. It’s at the point where it is affecting my health and my work. </p>
<p>You’re right, at her college she is surrounded by wealthy kids (it’s a private school, and she got a partial scholarship without which I could not have let her go there). So she is the “poor” kid at the rich kids school - I tried to warn her about this, but she had her heart set on this college. At a state school, she would have been more of an average kid at a middle of the road kids’ school. She resents me because I cannot provide what other parents provide - she is around kids who drive luxury cars and get their choice of completely parent-subsidized apartments.</p>
<p>Please tell your sister thank you for me. I’m looking forward to hearing more - and wish I could see her myself!</p>
<p>She’s so right about the alpha dogging. This strong-willed child has been alpha dogging me for a long time. She wears me down with exhaustion. </p>
<p>Your sister is so right about the fear, anger, and above all hurt that I feel when she has these outbursts - several times she’s said “I’m through with you” - of course I know that she’ll contact me when it’s time for the rent check or tuition payment, but right now she “hates” me so much that I’m afraid she will cut me off completely. True, I wasn’t abusive, but she perceives me as manipulative and controlling (this is largely due, I think, to the cousin’s influence). </p>
<p>I can’t stop her from going off with him - I know he is an alcoholic and uses other drugs. I don’t think she’ll be safe there. He also thinks I’m controlling and manipulative, and that wanting her to text me while she’s gone is over the top (his mother let him drop out of school when he was 14 if that gives you any idea about the parenting he grew up with). </p>
<p>I’ll take your sister’s advice and walk away from the tantrums and not give in.</p>
<p>Really like the idea for next year’s housing of giving her what a dorm and meal plan would cost, and letting her figure it out. </p>
<p>One problem though is that on campus housing is not guaranteed, although most who apply for it early get it. I can’t force her to apply, and wouldn’t put it past her to lie to me about it or do what she did last time, only put in for a single room, knowing that she probably wouldn’t get one. Then she’ll say, as she did this time “I couldn’t find anything else” and if I don’t get her another apartment, she’ll say I’m forcing her to drop out.</p>
<p>She thinks of a car as a necessity because public transportation is not very good, and she says the only place she could find on the bus line was this one, and she could have gotten a cheaper apartment if I bought her a car.</p>
<p>She’s also unwilling to look into sharing an apartment, or renting a room in a house, which would be much cheaper. The housing office does help students find off campus arrangements, but she refused to look into that. </p>
<p>Maybe after she’s back in college and away from the cousin (who BTW is visiting and yelled at me for two hours about this mess) I can send her an email and explain that I’ll contribute the cost of a dorm and meal plan, and she can look for an apartment and car on that budget, and if she can’t find one, then she will have to look into shared housing.</p>
<p>Knowing her, she’ll say she couldn’t find anyone to share with (she said her friends already have roommates) and that she won’t share with strangers because her stuff could get stolen. But if she drops out because she absolutely refuses to look into shared housing, wouldn’t that be on her, not me?</p>
<p>I did the best I could, but feel like such a failure as a parent.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Absolutely.</p>
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</p>
<p>You did the best you could. That’s all any child has a right to ask of any parent.</p>
<p>Absolutely.
When you tell her what you’ll give and how, also tell her about deadlines for on-campus housing, pros/cons to roommates, all you can think of to help her make her own informed decision. Let her know you’ll be there with advice if she has further questions. Make it clear to her this is the money she gets, and that from here on housing is her decision. You could even add that if she has money left over she keeps it, but if she comes up short she needs to get the shortfall somewhere else.</p>
<p>Good advice, younghoss.</p>
<p>teenagers and old people are mean so that when they leave you don’t feel so bad:)</p>
<p>^ lol…love that!</p>
<p>the cousin (who BTW is visiting and yelled at me for two hours about this mess)</p>
<p>{{{ hugs }}}}</p>
<p>Ok…repeat after me… "No one is going to yell at me for 2 minutes, much less than 2 hours in my own home (or anywhere!). Next time this person yells at me, I will walk to the door, open it, and demand that he leave. "</p>
<p>If he won’t leave, quietly take your cell phone, lock yourself in the bathroom and quietly call the police. He’ll have to leave then.</p>
<p>And…when your D sees that you’ll do that, she’ll realize that there’s a new sheriff in town!</p>
<p>I would also quietly tell your D this…</p>
<p>When you selected this school, we discussed that the student body would be largely made up of affluent kids, but you insisted on going - which means that you were willing to deal with your family’s limitations.</p>
<p>However, since you aren’t able to deal with the financial disparities, you will either have to leave this school and go to XXX Public where there will be more kids like you…which is more the NORM…or accept the realities of our finances and continue at your pricey school. </p>
<p>*You’re right that a lot of her anger towards me is that she grew up without a father. Once when she was angry at me she said “it’s not like I have a father to turn to.” Her father and I split up when she was a baby (he was an alcoholic who would not get help).
*</p>
<p>Obviously, your D is being illogical because an alcoholic parent isn’t going to be one she could turn to, either.</p>
<p>Does her dad support her financially? ever??? Did he see her while growing up?</p>
<p>I think she may have some depression issues (which may be inherited thru the dad and be exasperated by her situation), but if you can’t get her to a doctor, I don’t know how this might get diagnosed/treated.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone for the great advice on the housing situation. It’s too late this year, but once she gets settled in this semester, I’ll explain the plan and suggest it’s not too early to start looking for housing. I might do it in an email. Since her favorite line is “I’m an adult” I could even preface it that way" - “since you’re an adult, I will respect your ability to make adult decisions about housing” and go from there.</p>
<p>Mom2college kids, thanks again. I’ll have to put it in there that she if she can’t find an apartment by herself (which may or may not include a car) on the budget we have, she will either have to adjust herself to shared housing. If she has difficulties adjusting to the reality of her financial situation, transferring is an option. (When she complained so much about the dorm last year, even with a single room - and the “stuck up rich kids” and I mentioned transferring, she didn’t follow through). </p>
<p>If he yells at me like that again, I will ask him to stop or leave. Normally I would have walked away, but I think I was so overwhelmed by the drama that I sort of shut down. He claims he’s taking up for her, and she is on his side every time. </p>
<p>She doesn’t realize that most other parents would have kicked him out by now (and with her behavior, some would have asked her to find another place to live, too).</p>
<p>I’ve thought that she has some depression issues along with the anger, but can’t talk her into going to see a counselor. When I forced her to go briefly in high school, one thing she complained about was that she was always trying to get her to talk about her father - I think the therapist was getting close to the big issue, and that made her uncomfortable.</p>
<p>Thank you so much for being here!</p>
<p>Haven’t read the whole thread, so apologies if this is redundant.
Califa-
How old is your dau? Sounds like she and the cousin are verbally and emotionally abusive. She can blackmail you with threats togo to the cousin’s. Fine. Let her go. YOu really don’t need a daily text. Surely she will hit you up for somethign if she needs it.</p>
<p>Don’t ever threaten something you are not willing to follow through with. </p>
<p>Don’t engage in a verbal tug of war. If she says something to try to battle, you respond with “I am sorry you feel that way”. Period. It says you hear her, but you arent going to argue about it.</p>
<p>No, don’t buy her a car if she is disrespectful and doesnt deserve it. Let her earn it on her own. If she thinks she is an adult, then she can start to act like one and own the responsibilites for the things she wants. Sorry, but she is acting like an abusive spoiled brat. I am assuming that divorced alcoholic dad is not in the picture at all? Does she have any relationship with im? Does he help financially?</p>
<p>Jym is right. You must state a demand/consequence and stick to it. That said, the demand/consequence must be carefully thought out so that it is not something extreme that you can’t/won’t follow thru. </p>
<p>I spoke with my sister again, and she was firm that it is NOT “playing the money card” when a parent refuses or stops paying for “extras” when an adult child is behaving like this. She said that it is completely illogical and enabling to continue paying for extras when such behavior exists. She also used the “job analogy” by saying that it’s part of life to learn that there will be consequences (often financial ones) if you treat others badly. No employer, friends, spouses are going to put up with such nonsense. My sister has been a licensed therapist for over 20 years and is excellent. </p>
<p>“Playing the money card” has to do with using money to “force” someone to do an arbitrary thing (not a right/wrong thing)…such as what I described earlier…such as: “I will cut you off financially unless you break up with that boyfriend because I don’t like his ethnic group”…or…“you must go to my church every Sunday and not that other religion’s church.” Those demands are arbitrary and are “playing the money card.” This is not.</p>
<p>She also agreed with my idea that you should say to your D, “we discussed the possible problems that could happen by going to a school with affluent kids before you enrolled. Either you happily accept the current situation, or transfer to the cheaper state school where there will more kids like you.”</p>
<p>My sis also thinks that your D may need to be evaluated for depression.</p>
<p>The monthly stipend/housing thing is actually what my parents did when i was at school. It’s usually a much more effective solution.</p>
<p>Watch out for Fear/Aggression – that’s when a creature is very aggressive because underneath, they are very afraid. </p>
<p>It can be helpful to say “I am terrified that” as in “Wow, your tone of voice is really aggressive. I am terrified that if I pay for XYZ that it will make you even more angry.” then be silent. Let them convince you different. </p>
<p>It’s also ok to say “You’ve got a lot going on. Is there anything that terrifies you? Because I’ve had lots of worries about how things have been going. I’d like to hear about what worries you right now”</p>
<p>It can help to leave ones house. I can say “I am furious. I am going to go weed the empty lot down the street and you can come talk to me once you have a respectful tone and a reasonable path forward.” Make them come find you to get money. It’s odd, but when they are not in the house, then they are a bit less confident.</p>
<p>Jym, thanks. She’s 20 and yes, it’s awful to say this, but I feel like the cousin, and also D, though not as much, are being verbally abusive. Right now they’re still here but we barely speak to each other. If she runs off with him, of course I’ll worry about her, but I have to admit the stress level will go down because I won’t be walking on eggshells.</p>
<p>Good idea on engaging with her when she wants to battle. She’s a screamer, and I’m not, so we really don’t get through to each other. </p>
<p>Her father has never been in the picture and has never paid any child support. I didn’t ask for any, because he didn’t have a job (his new wife supported him) and you can’t get blood out of a stone. He would call her once in a while. Maybe one of my mistakes was not encouraging more of a relationship, but I have to admit I didn’t want to deal with him and didn’t think he was in any condition to be a dad.</p>
<p>Mom2collegekids, thank you so much for getting your sister’s input again! I hadn’t thought of it this way, but there IS a huge difference between paying only for necessities (including tuition and books and housing) while giving nothing for extras and threatening to cut a kid off because you don’t like their partner’s race or religion. What’s ironic here is that I was thinking of getting her a car after this year, but unless her attitude changes, I don’t see why I should. </p>
<p>You’re right, she does have to learn that in the real, adult world, people other than mom will not put up with this behavior. I really like the “job analogy” - from this perspective, I wouldn’t be doing her any favors by giving her more than the necessities as long as she treats me like this.</p>
<p>I wish I could get her evaluated for depression but she won’t go. She doesn’t think she has any problems - everything is my fault.</p>
<p>Olymom, thanks - I think you’re right about the fear and anger, and underneath all her rage there is some fear. I will try talking to her like that, but it will have to be when the cousin’s not around. She has said she has a lot going on and is very stressed and that’s why she acts that way.</p>
<p>But I don’t think anyone should act the way she does. I wish she’d learn that everyone, even family, should be treated with common decency.</p>
<p>Why is the cousin in your house if he is verbally abusive to you? If you were thinking about getting her a car, you must have some extra money which you could use for your own therapy.</p>
<p>I was thinking of using a CD that matures in April to get her a car, but given this behavior, that’s out. She can get her own car and insurance. I’m going to do the “I’ll contribute the cost of a shared dorm room plus meal plan and you figure it out” approach, and if she can find an apartment and used car for that, or make up the difference with a job, great, and if not, she either goes back to the dorm or makes her adult decision to quit because she didn’t get her way.</p>
<p>Actually I’m thinking of getting a few sessions with a family counselor for myself even though it will be expensive with no insurance. If she does drop out because I won’t get her an apartment beyond my budget next year, I have to be prepared for the guilt trip.</p>
<p>I like “What Shamu taught me” by Amy Sutherland and “Emotional Blackmail” by Susan Forward. Both can help a parent or a young adult navigate habits and set boundaries that are mutually respectful.</p>
<p>Thanks Olymom. I’ve started “Emotional Blackmail” and see that is what D has been doing… that’s how she got the apartment, with her threats to drop out if she didn’t have her way. If I’d called her on it, she just might have gone back to the dorm. Too late for this year, but next year I’ll be prepared. </p>
<p>She needs to learn that everyone, including me, deserves to be treated with common courtesy, and I need to set limits and boundaries.</p>
<p>Yep! I loved the Father who insisted that the daughter keep a record of fuel purchases. Eventually the D said “Dad, I’m an adult and I’ve made the adult choice to quit filling out the booklet” at which point the Dad said “Great. Now give me back the card and start paying for your own gas, like the adult you are.” (Courtesy of CarTalk). </p>
<p>So your D is using your fears as a bludgeon. Fine. Time to not have those fears. This is one smart, somewhat ruthless cookie you’ve got. She’ll be fine out there in the world. So time to say “Fly little bird! Here’s the bird seed I have to share and whatever else you want, you’ll have to find and peck up yourself”. If she DOES drop out, tell her you love her and hope she’ll finish college one day – and schedule yourself a road trip so you’ll be out of reach (funny how crisis don’t develop when you aren’t there to be a rescuer). </p>
<p>Be strong. Use this year as your own little shelaileigh. Now you can say “Look you were horrid and I got you the living space you wanted. I feel that I rewarded some really terrible behavior. I am determined not to do that again. Anything you want now needs to be with a completely different presentation because every time I hear anger in your voice, I’m going to think what a stupid doormat I was to give into your past rude behavior.” </p>
<p>Also, be smart. When and how does D get to you? Well, don’t get yourself in that situation again (kinda like when a guy groped me not ten seconds from my college room door – I determined I would never again agree a date with someone I hadn’t checked out with friends!). </p>
<p>Hopefully this is just a phase and D will start to feel guilty about her word choices – but let’s do the groundwork now so the phase is as short as possible. Good luck!</p>