Do Not Believe Child's Choice Is Appropriate

Parents Forum
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<p>*re: a student picking “badly”</p>

<p>Does the student know they’ve picked badly? Can the “badliness” be explained in clear, simple terms? *</p>

<p>I don’t know how clearly it can be explained…it’s one of those things that when you see it, you know it. LOL Obviously, a parents desire for an elite school or an alma mater can cloud that vision.</p>

<p>But, I would say a pick is bad…If…</p>

<p>the pick has a lousy program in the desired major,
the pick was made simply because a BF or GF is going there
the pick is too expensive, causing too much debt or threat to retirement
the pick is largely a commuter school, therefore your child will be abandoned on nights and weekends, and he has the personality that that would bother him.</p>

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<p>Greta, I think your situation is perfectly reasonable, given your circumstances, and assuming that you have told your kids the same thing you’ve told us.</p>

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<p>I feel like we’ve all been sitting around on a lovely deck somewhere sipping coffee or tea having a discussion – thanks to everyone for your valuable input, thoughts, and yes…difficult to hear guidance. I am most appreciative.</p>

<p>As the original poster, wanted to add some information…</p>

<p>My child is selecting (although I think the decision has been made) between two very different kinds of schools – one a conservatory and the other a fine, small liberal arts college. The differences are considerable … location, student population, facilities, requirements, course load…just about everything. It’s comparing apples to grasshoppers. Visited both (one once, the other three times). </p>

<p>I’ve remained neutral until now as he’s done a 180 twice, deciding on one school, then switching to the other, and now back to the first one. His decision is for the school whereby I believe (and I know…he’s a young adult and I’m simply the parent) he will struggle in every possible area with one exception – core courses. And I know (although it’s been many years) that college is far more than core courses.</p>

<p>The financial piece is an issue, yet the stretch could be workable depending upon a few factors. I agreed with exploring both as I believe part of the college process <em>is</em> exploring things that perhaps you never considered before as college is about exposing you to things you’ve never experienced before. The college he has selected will require “other” things – determining complex transportation issues (one requiring several hours of daily commuting while the other a far shorter commute), being in an urban environment late at night … the kinds of things that all parents consider. So while it may seem like a “let the student decide” situation – and I understand and agree that forcing a child (which I would never do) to attend College X because I felt it was appropriate would be a life-long wrong decision, the “other factors” beyond those listed above require significant consideration as well.</p>

<p>My original question about how to handle it revolved, I suppose, about how and if you simply have to say – “Okay, my child has graduated from high school and now adulthood is here so forget all the real – not perceived – concerns and look away.” To me, this seems unrealistic at many levels yet perhaps this is the way it is.</p>

<p>Hope this clarifies some of the questions posed. Again, thanks so much for your individual and collective input.</p>

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<p>I don’t think you “forget all the real - not perceived - concerns and look away.” Rather, you discuss them, long and hard, and determine whether your son is prepared to deal with them.</p>

<p>There was a thread a while ago with a kid trying to convince his parents to let him have a car on campus since it was so difficult to get home (multiple connections). His parents told him, “You chose the school, knowing about these difficulties. So suck it up.”</p>

<p>Are you able to tell your kid that? Are you willing to say, "This will require several hours a day of commuting time. This will cut into your social life. We still, however, require a certain degree of academic success to continue funding you. And we will not bail you out of your choice if you decide that the commute is ‘too hard.’ " </p>

<p>In short, I’d be blunt about the real issues, tell the kid that you believe he can handle them but he might not want to, and let the kid own the decision.</p>

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<p>

a little different slant … when a parent makes suggestions the suggestions are through their eyes and may well miss important attributes to the students. A couple cases I know of …</p>

<p>Smart kid underachieved in HS … one parent keeps suggesting schools that match the SAT score and are well known top schools (these schools are extreme reaches due to grades and honors non-AP courses in HS) … these suggestions ignore the students preferences to not be in a academically grueling situation, size of school, possible majors (not traditional liberal arts), location, etc. </p>

<p>Smart high achieving kid … prefers schools almost the opposite of the parents preferences (urban not college town … LAC not research U … etc).</p>

<p>In both these cases the parents were suggesting with the best of intentions but were not coming at the suggestions through the students lens … either known or unknown attributes. For me one of my bigger lessons as a parent is understanding my kids almost always have well understood (by them) reasons their decisions … often reasons we do not know or internalize well … but reasons that make choices for them clear.</p>

<p>What’s the punchline for my kids … it’s their pick unless they make an absolutely bizzare choice and that discussion would likely have occured when the application was submitted.</p>

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<p>My parents’ requirement was that they really only wanted to pay living expenses, perhaps a few thousand dollars more a year. </p>

<p>I needed to get scholarships that would meet full tuition, room and board, and preferably, books. My choices were narrowed a lot, but I agreed with their requirement.</p>

<p>Luckily I got a ful scholarship and an acceptance to a top school. Since my parents literally have to pay nothing, they have no say in my choice at all. But they’re into letting me make my own mistakes and pay for it thing.</p>

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<p>Well said. I think this is entirely fair and we are doing the same.</p>

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<p>The college he has selected will require “other” things – determining complex transportation issues (one requiring several hours of daily commuting while the other a far shorter commute), being in an urban environment late at night …</p>

<p>Yikes!</p>

<p>I missed that! That alone would make it a really BAD choice if other good choices are available.</p>

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<p>I think it is VERY important for parents to discuss the downsides and upsides to kid’s college choices… frankly, 17-year-olds are apt to trivalize some issues and fail to recognize others. They may not have thought through the day-to-day routine of school - since they are still in “I hope I get accepted” and the honeymoon phase of the process. So it is a very good idea for parents to talk things through with kid - practical and logical and mundane things such as, "Let’s think about how you’d go about this. So, if you are living in an apartment here and have 9 o’clock class, how will you get to school and when?. What will your transportation costs be like? Have you thought about where and when you’ll eat? Laundry? What about late night rehearsals? How would that be different from late night rehearsals at the other school? What do you think you’ll enjoy about this school more? What will you miss? etc. etc. I think it helps kids to come down to earth and have a better understanding of what their life will be like. So many times in the answering of these types of questions, the kid realizes major issues or benefits they hadn’t even considered before. Like, Wow - I’m going to have to get up before 7 a.m. every day to make it to class on time and it’s going to cost me over $100 a month for travel passes and I won’t be able to do this/or will be able to do that…</p>

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<p>It is reassuring to hear so many parents and students working hard to find the right balance among the supportive/practical/financial/maturity/trust issues. It is so difficult to know where to draw those lines, especially when it is the first go-round. For my part, although I have a preference for my son, I am trying not to sell my choice as much as sell a procedure for looking at all the variables. I’m not sure how convincing I am on either side of that coin, but I have hope that when all the discussions are done, we will all be at peace with my son’s decision. Thank you all for your insights.</p>

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<p>As I reread this thread, I am forced to wonder if the issue isn’t really Conservatory vs. LAC.</p>

<p>Could it be OP’s son is choosing the difficult commute to have the option not to major in music?</p>

<p>One of mine was undecided, but got into the best option, a great place for a particular major. But ultimately a different school was chosen because my student decided the school was not preferable for any other major.</p>

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<p>Conservatory vs LAC is a key choice. </p>

<p>Clearly part of the choice is if there is a total commitment to his art. </p>

<p>Is this a BFA v BA issue too?</p>

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<p>Agreed. And I don’t know the O.P.'s viewpoint. My opinion is simple. There are so few people that have the opportunity to be a full-time performing artist that they are not even worth talking about. For everyone else, a LAC program with a lot of options and a lot more room for discovery makes more sense. </p>

<p>I could be wrong, but when I hear the words ‘commuting over many hours’ (or the like) I’m getting the idea that this might be the conservatory option. And when I hear the word “complex” before commuting it makes me wonder if there are other things involved. </p>

<p>O.P. ,</p>

<p>Does the conservatory have local housing options? Is your son physically challenged or in need of an accommodation?</p>

<p>If it doesn’t enter into the issue at hand, please ignore my questions - just trying to understand.</p>

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<p>For my first degree, I started off as a music major. Every summer, I would come home and work for a temp agency in menial office jobs. I lost count of the number of people slaving away in little cubicles at these companies who told me that they had music performance degrees. After two years, I changed my major to something that was, for me anyway, a bit more practical.</p>

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<p>Is he going to be living at home? Or does one of these colleges have no dormitories? That confuses me-- a long and complex commute is a huge addition to the stress of a first year in college–and one most 18 year olds would have no sense of in advance. Conservatory vs. LAC is one thing–but this sounds like a very particular situation. Can you say what college this is? (here or on the music forum) It sounds like there might be some practical matters that you could resolve to make the decision easier.</p>

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<p>OP- a giant cyber hug. It is hard to watch your kid make a decision you think is a bad one.</p>

<p>I think what you need to do before the letter goes into the mail is to take a walk together, and just explain that you are concerned about the logistics, the commuting, etc. but that once he makes the decision to go to this school you intend to be 100% supportive of his choice. But that if he has concerns… which he clearly does since he’s been flip flopping a bit about the decision, you’d be happy to hear them out and you will promise not to comment, editorialize, interrupt, or otherwise pass judgment. But in the time it takes to walk around the block twice, you will be quiet and listen to both his concerns (the ambivalent part) and the appeal of this school. And then once he puts the envelope in the mail you will be 100% supportive.</p>

<p>And then do it.</p>

<p>I think he may need help talking himself out of the inconvenient option… but not in the form of Mom telling him what to do, but in the form of someone loving and supportive listening to him articulate his concerns. And that loving and supportive person can be you.</p>

<p>And if he makes a bad decision, you don’t get to say “I told you so”. He’s your kid- he’s not evil, he made a mistake, and you will stand by him while he tries to fix it, or to make the best of a sub-optimal situation.</p>

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<p>It’s either a B.M. or a B.A. Hope by answering the questions individually it’s not violating list rules.</p>

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<p>You are correct…the conservatory is the “long, arduous commute” option. Housing options are slim (off-campus) and not doable at least not initially. Good question and thanks for raising it.</p>

<p>And to blossom – many thanks for your kindness (cyber hug – very cool). Yes, this decision is grueling and never expected it to be this difficult. Knowing your child has to play a part in this particularly if – and believe me, this is not the pivotal point – my checkbook is playing a part. As each of us would attest, enabling our children to grow and experience life is an essential part of college and helping to ensure their success is paramount. Doing this, however, when there are objective and concrete concerns is extremely difficult. Thus my initial post and appreciation to everyone for your thoughts and input. Many thanks…</p>

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<p>If you truly think this is the wrong school for your child, then just say you refuse to pay for it.</p>

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<p>If my kid wanted a conservatory I would support him. He’ll find out soon enough if it’s not for him, but it’s the kind of the thing that there are no do-overs for.</p>

<p>You don’t want him spending his entire life saying, “If only I’d gone to the conservatory I’d be a … now.” Conservatory spots do not come easily, so he must have considerable talent.</p>

<p>As for practicality, so few majors are really practical right now with the exception of health care. </p>

<p>Many people with conservatory degrees met others who led to other job opportunities. If he’s in his world, his chances of success are greater.</p>

<p>At least that’s how I’d look at it.</p>

<p>And if the commute is too arducous, he’ll find that out too.</p>