<p>I used to tell my sister-in-law that I didn’t understand why her children ever asked her for things WITHOUT whining because it was clear that’s all it took for her to cave. It truly was annoying. What’s the point of saying no five times when the sixth is a sure bet? Start at the attitude of the 6th request and save everyone some time. Seems this is where HMom’s friend’s daughter is. It’s like teaching a kid to sleep in his own bed. At first you have to take them back to bed again and again as well as put up with some later night. but IF YOU ARE CONSISTENT, things usually improve vastly and quickly.</p>
<p>I don’t have any advice about the daughter – the story of birthday cake was so awful that I have no frame of reference.
As for the SO, I’m not sure why she can’t just let dad and daughter continue to get together without her.
Several people have advised you to stop listening to the dad since he’ll never change. I disagree – I think there is likely to be no real solution to this problem, so the best thing you can do for him as a friend is to continue to listen and care and offer your honest opinion.</p>
<p>welcome to america…home of the bailout…will we ever change?</p>
<p>i’m not an emotional person and don’t really have sympathy for people so if i ever get in this situation it would be easy. tell daughter here are my rules since you want MY money. if you don’t follow them, good luck surviving on your own. once you get humbled out there in the real world we’ll see if your attitude changes. </p>
<p>and if daddy can’t do this then tell him to stop whining and wasting your time. the truth hurts doesn’t it. sorry i’m so harsh but if there’s 2 types of people i can’t stand in this world it’s irresponsible people and people who can’t face reality. grow the heck up. as for the daughter, if i was the dad i would slap her around a few times cuz *** is she thinking?</p>
<p>and hmom, from what i’ve read from your posts, you have no problems dishing out the truth ;-)</p>
<p>Yes, no problem telling the truth, which is why I think he’s asking me and DH at this point. We have not always had an easy time with out own three yet they all got to a good place by this age.</p>
<p>The SO situation is a hard one to advise on for me as I can’t relate. But it’s not that DD is asking for Saturday night’s alone. Dad and his SO live together most of the time. He has a beach house where they typically spend much of the week during the summer. DD thinks SO should never be there if she chooses to be there, and since she has no job she plans to be there all summer with her friends. And she believes travel should always be without his SO and she enjoys a lot of travel. I know SO is happy for them to have lots of alone time and would prefer to avoid DD at this point. But both of them feel she deserves some respect from DD as his partner of 3 years who has been nothing but nice.</p>
<p>Sounds like she may, as a child/adolescent, had met criteria for a diagnosis of ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) <a href=“http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_for_families/children_with_oppositional_defiant_disorder[/url]”>http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_for_families/children_with_oppositional_defiant_disorder</a>
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<p>ODD is more than being just spoiled- there is a manipulative, non-complliant, vengeful component to their behavior. The dog poo and birthday cake incidents sound like that. Left untreated, these kids may develop behavior or personality disorders as adults, and its challenging to deal with. As many have said, at this point he can’t change her, he can only change how he responds to her. Understanding her behavior may help him to stand firm when she pushes the limits. Good luck.</p>
<p>How old is this daughter again? Her father has a right to be happy. I will admit that when my parents divorced (I was 19) I hated that my dad never did anything without his new girlfriend (whom he eventually married), but that was things like dinner on Father’s Day!<br>
Never in a million years would I have expected he not have a life just so I didn’t feel uncomfortable. Tell dd to get over it or go spend her summer elsewhere. Dad and SO are entitled to build a life together. And seriously, if dad said, “you’re really going to need to accept things as they are and tow the line,” what is he so afraid of? That he’ll lose visitation? Obviously her Mother had no probs moving to Europe or wherever, I think this kid needs a wake up call. </p>
<p>My pediatrician used to tell me that if a kid won’t eat whats put in front of them do not become a short order cook. The kid will not allow himself to starve. I think that advice works well for this kid as well. She might be grumpy for a while and it probably won’t be the most fun of summers, but dad and SO avoiding the uncomfortable and stressful situations is exactly what this kid is counting on.</p>
<p>In addition to the possible ODD diagnosis, there’s more going on here than just the money. Three year olds don’t act like that without something serious going on - even the most “spoiled” kids I knew at three years old would listen quickly once they learned that tantrums wouldn’t work on me. This girl doesn’t seem to have learned that.</p>
<p>There’s an element missing in the daughter’s relation with her father - respect. She believes that she is the center of the universe and he is merely a circling star. His needs are irrelevant. Couple that with dad’s inability to say No (about anything, including the presence of the SO at the beach house) and you have a recipe for disaster. This could be due to narcissism or due to lack of self-esteem: If anyone shares love with anyone else, it means that he doesn’t love me. I am unlovable. There isn’t enough love to go around. </p>
<p>This is not to blame the parents - this is a problem of d’s perceptions.</p>
<p>I would also advise the SO to run, not walk, away from this deal. Children of prior marriages are the biggest reason that subsequent relationships fall apart. Even if the dad is able to rein in his daughter’s behavior, the d will never accept the SO. There is no future for her.</p>
<p>I have a cousin like this. He’s 54 now and is completely supported by his widowed mother. She’s turned 80 and there’s money in trust for him when she goes. He’s utterly useless and his parents completely enabled him. Sometimes money isn’t a good thing to have when it’s used that way.</p>
<p>Lots of stuff to digest in this thread… For the most part, the advice has been consistent about getting firm with D, etc.</p>
<p>I think though in order for the father to be able to move forward, he will have to accept that he needs to step back first. That is where he is failing.</p>
<p>Ultimately, if he wants his relationship with his D to work, he will need to set the boundaries clearly and from what I am reading here in great detail, as D uses any tool at hand to attempt to circumvent the rules.</p>
<p>This is probably best done in a written (email is very good here) manner. Father must clearly define how much support is going to be delivered and in what form (e.g. payment to bursars account of $X upon receipt of previous term grades showing academic progress, payment to landlord of $Y on monthly basis, deposit in debit card account of $Z, car maintenance to be provided at such and such garage, etc.). </p>
<p>Social rules must then be defined. Father will answer phone calls on the condition that the following will result in the immediate disconnection of call with a wait period of 24 hours before the phone will be answered again (second offenses 48 hours, 3rd 72, etc.). Here he lists the taboo subjects including renegotiation of financial arrangements, negative comments about SO or other family members, etc. </p>
<p>Further social rules must be defined for visitation with the clearly defined consequence of immediate dismissal (put her in a cab going home or removal of personal items from residence for 1 week minimum, escalating from there). Social rules include being respectful towards SO and others, accepting her role as GUEST in his home, etc. </p>
<p>Father should however offer certain 1-on-1 time (dinner out, etc.) on a set periodic basis (this offer should be in writing) subject to the same social rules (no talking ill of others, no negotiating financials, etc.).</p>
<p>All financial communication between F and D should be through email and should be conducted as a business arrangement - show me why I should invest more money in you before I invest. This isn’t a government handout, but an investment relationship. If the daughter cannot articulate why the investment of more funds is needed (lean operation or way beyond current financing) for a significant improvement in output (i.e. better preparation for jobs, grad school, etc.), the offer should be treated like any other business proposal. BTW, this is the entre for F to get D to explain her spending behavior - What perceived requirement is fufilled by the spending may get D to examine her priorities as opposed to just going back for more.</p>
<p>In the end, stepping back in the relationship to a contractual arrangement, while painful for a couple of years will yield benefits. I think F is looking for the quick turnaround in an industry that has a long capital investment cycle. Doesn’t work. F has to stop looking at quarterly results (or daily sales figures) and look at this investment opportunity as a long-term investment.</p>
<p>hmom, I think talking to him in terms of business (where you have been successful for a long time) might help him to do this.</p>
<p>^^ Yes yes!! </p>
<p>When I was in my mid-20’s I wanted to go back to grad school. Asked my dad, he agreed to X and I needed Y. I wrote up a whole proposal, showed him my budget and how I was invested fully in the process. He agreed to my increase and I learned a HUGELY valuable lesson. Had he just handed me the money with no sacrifice on my part, what would that have ever taught me about the real world.</p>
<p>modadunn i think your situation is completely different then the one we’re discussing cuz ur not a spoiled, troubled kid.</p>
<p>there should be a group for this like “i’m a spoiled brat anonymous” or somethin lol.</p>
<p>and what do DD and SO mean? I see all these acronyms on here but i can never figure out what they are…</p>
<p>pugmadkate…how do you know when you get married if your partner is going to be weak with his children? unless his personality completely shows he’s unemotional and makes decisions like he does for business decisions, it’s hard to tell what he’s gonna do as a parent isn’t it? lots of people say one thing and then do another b/c there’s emotions involved or they’ve never been in that situation and only assume what they think they would do.</p>
<p>My point msl was that had my father NOT had the expectations that he did or held us to a particular standard, perhaps I might have been a spoiled brat. We certainly had the potential!! My father died 20 years ago shortly after my husband and I were married. He was my biggest cheerleader but also had the highest expectations. My father telling me, I am disappointed in you (which yes, he did say once or thrice in my life) was THE motivator for me to do better.</p>
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<p>By observing them with children, by talking about parenting. He was very loving but firm with boundaries with his neice, offering up sympathy and distractions but not giving in. I remember being in a grocery store with my then boyfriend when a small child threw a huge tantrum only to finally be rewarded with the item in question. He said to me, “That poor kid. If you’re going to give in anyway, why put the kid through that?” If he’d said, “What a brat!”, that would have been a huge red flag for me. </p>
<p>In otherwords, it wasn’t what he said, it was his reasoning. It’s one thing to say, “I’d never give in when my kid is being a brat.” It’s another to understand that you are actually hurting your child by failing to provide predictable boundaries.</p>
<p>In this case, the partner saw the poor parenting in action and signed on anyway.</p>
<p>This is really sad. Here you have a young woman, who exhibited problems decades ago, yet the adults responsible for her care didn’t behave appropriately and gotten her help, instead they apparently did what ever short term measure would tide them over, till time for the next short term solution.</p>
<p>The equivalent of buying candy at the checkout counter every time- and with predictably damaging results.</p>
<p>Typical that those who could have changed the outcome are placing blame elsewhere.</p>
<p>Modadunn, I’m so sorry that your lost your wonderful father so early in your life. I love the way you described him, “biggest cheerleader with the highest expectations.” </p>
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<p>Until he understands that his parenting is continuing to hurt his daughter, he won’t grasp that he has the power to help as well. It’s just so much easier to throw ones hands up, give yourself a pat on the back for trying and either give up the relationship or continue to participate in it while pretending that the problem is entirely the other party. </p>
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<p>We’re you shocked and disturbed? Or do you see it as fitting it with the overall pattern of this young woman’s behavior? I know sometimes that it can help someone see a pattern when they find out that others can see it. </p>
<p>For example, when I worked with victims of domestic violence, I would share with the cycle of violence and ask if it sounded familiar. Often time clients were shocked, truly shocked, to find out that their life was not unique to them, that what had seemed “out of the blue” had, in fact, been following a pattern.</p>
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<p>The question is what are YOU thinking? Slap her around?</p>
<p>My good friend has a daughter same age as my D2. They used to be best friends until fourth grade because my D2 thought their daughter was spoiled, and basically an awful human being. My friend and I actually cooled off for a while because of our kids situation. We finally got back on track again, but never discussed our girls for a long time. More recently she’s began to ask me if I got along with D2, did she argue with me a lot, what did I do if I didn’t allow my D2 to go out, did D2 break a lot of stuff (iphone, computer, camera). She just assumed her D was just behaving like a typical teenager. </p>
<p>My friend’s daughter was very well liked when she was younger (more popular than my daughter). Now at age 15, her friends are no longer willing to put up with her. Her sense of entitlement just goes beyond what people are willing to put up with. She then gets in a worse mood and she takes it out on her parents. My friend tells me that she needs to get herself mentally prepared every afternoon before her D comes home. She tells me that I am “so lucky” to have such an easy child. There is nothing easy about our kid(s). We were just more willing to put in the hard work in the beginning. Parents really are doing a disservice to their kids when they don’t teach their kids how to behave. They may be able to get play dates when they were little because of their parents, but when they get older other kids will just shun away from them.</p>
<p>so hmom have u talked to the dad? what’s he gonna do?</p>