<p>Spelmom: Since it IS nyc, there are probably other things worth doing on a visit and I'm wondering if he might really enjoy having you there, so he can show you some things (or explore them with you). For someone who is not a phone person, trying to be with you on the phone may be much harder than to be with you in person when you are on his new "turf." I wouldn't back out of the weekend unless you get a really clear message that you'd be unwelcome, say from your daughter who has tabs on him. You will no doubt feel better just for seeing him and it is a family weekend so he will not be the only kid with a parent hanging around. Don't bail yet....</p>
<p>Also just a warning that during Family Weekend they might not be in total "show off my school to the parents" mode. My freshman S was not real thrilled to be walking around campus with his mom & dad and refused to do most of the tours since he imagined we would be the only ones geeky enough to show up. Luckily there were tons of parents everywhere so he loosened up after a while. But we didn't push it - it was just nice to see him.
PS. Now that he is a senior whenever we visit he does not mind being seen with us anymore - the last time we were there he actually took us around on a mini-tour of campus improvements and changes - so it does get better!</p>
<p>Hi all. Welcome to the merry-go-round. Today was the day for our weekly call, and after two good weeks, this week sucked. We called him today, and he was away, so we left a message. He called back several hours later, not very interested in talking - at all, and at a time when our dinner was literally just coming off the BBQ. We very kindly asked if we could call him back in about 20-30 minutes. We quickly ate dinner, and called him back. No answer. We have tried 2 or 3 additional times. He's not even answering his cell phone. My wife was initially upset, and i was fine. Then the tides turned, and she was fine, and then i got upset (internally).</p>
<p>Going back in time, we had seen a freeway billboard (interestingly enough) on our drive home after "move-in" week. It was for one of the quick "oil change" businesses. (might have been Jiffy Lube, or some competitor). The slogan, to attract customers, was very simple "Faster than a Teenager changes moods'. My wife laughed she saw it (over a month a ago). I did not quite connect to the humor in it - until tonight. </p>
<p>I started this thread, after our son had been at college for a couple of weeks because it seemed like we missed our son, and he was not missing us. We were frustrated, and frankly, we became concerned that possibly something serious was wrong. (you would have to read the entire thread to get all the details). I finally called him, and expressed my concerns. He sensed my deep concerns, and reassured me that he was doing fine. After reading several people's suggestions on this thread, we settled in on a weekly call. Things were going nicely - very nicely. It was awesome. It seemed like such an easy solution (the weekly calls, and not asking a list of questions), and the results were awesome. Then, today, it was like Jeckell and Hyde. Initially, it didn't bother me too much. Then, after an hour, it starting eating at me, and i got upset (internally). Then, after my wife and I spoke more about it, we realized that we simply can NOT go up and down on a roller coaster - just because he calls, or doesn't, or is in a good mood, and then is not. </p>
<p>I am still dissapointed - because i was looking forward to a good weekly call. But, life goes on. Maybe he had a bad day, or maybe he is busy with friends, or maybe he is feeling a deeper need to feel his independance. I will probably get a few responses from people telling me to not let one call, one day, determine how well our relationship is doing. Yes, i do realize that. It's just that when you are limited to once/week for your fix (my call with him), you depend upon that fix. Also, i realize that some may tell me to think more about his well-being than about how it is affecting me. There is truth in that. </p>
<p>For me, I am tired, and (due to a long commute to work) I wake up early, so it is time to go to bed. :-)</p>
<p>Here's hoping that we have another good call... soon.</p>
<p>If you have any interest in going to NY, I'd strongly consider doing it but plan other things you want to do in case he is busy & doesn't have a lot of time to spend with you. Whatever you decide, remember to pack selective amnesia to keep you from getting your feelings hurt. The way our kids are acting is really MUCH more about THEM and their adjustment than it is about US. While they're adjusting, they are pretty focused solely on themselves and don't really consider how they may be hurting our feelings by their actions and inactions. When we keep in mind that this is THEIR transition, it's easier to accept that their behavior may be a bit "off" for a while (at least it is for me & our family).
Hubby & I are choosing not to attend Parents' Weekend at son's request. He doesn't see the point & since we all spent 3 weeks together in LA in mid-August to drop him off, I honestly don't see the point either. Hubby will try to stop off in LA on a business trip at some point this fall anyway & I really don't feel like leaving our D, as she's still in HS.
I'm happy his roommate's mom is coming because I believe he may still be a bit homesick & recovering from his cold (tho I do not believe my son has been in homesick in the least).</p>
<p>I'm an incoming transfer student who just moved out, and can totally relate to the flip side of the discussion. Since my older sister calls/emails/IMs my mother everyday, she expects the same from me. Unfortunately, I don't feel the need to do the same, and have established a weekly call (as many on this thread do). This, of course, is unacceptable to my mother and she left a 'sad' email this morning about how she feels like I don't miss home (which I really don't) or don't care about what's going on with our family anymore. I'm getting used to living on my own, so I'm constantly busy- trying to find a job, getting used to the quarter system of classes, making new friends, trying to figure out how to deal with my roommates, etc. that I don't have the time to have mindless banter about...well, nothing. Everytime she calls, she asks how I'm eating, if I'm not staying up to late, if I miss her cooking, etc. and it's getting pretty irritating to have her call and ask me why I haven't called, when really, if I feel the need to call, I will. I get that she recently retired and is adjusting to her new life at home, but how do I let her know that she needs to adjust to mine as well?</p>
<p>As a compromise, could you just send her an e-mail from time to time in addition to the weekly call. This way, you can choose the topic & write about whatever interests you--how you're doing on your job hunt, something interesting that was said in a class, something amusing about a room mate, just something to let her know you're thinking of her. </p>
<p>You can re-assure her that because she raised you so well to be independent, you're finding your own say & this transition is taking a lot of your energy and time, so you really appreciate her understanding that your communication may not be as detailed or frequent as she might otherwise prefer. Maybe you might ask her about any hobbies, volunteer opportunities or other activities she's choosing to explore with her new extra time in retirement. As you say, both you & she are making transitions, and it sounds like it she may be having more trouble with her transition than you are with yours.</p>
<p>If you don't want to just talk about "nothing," try to think of topics you would enjoy discussing or at least mentioning to her. Tell her not to worry about you eating & sleeping properly because she's already raised you so well to take care of yourself that you'd rather talk about more interesting things & go on to topics you would rather talk about. Us folks are thrilled to hear about your "typical day." If you grab the conversation ball & talk, you don't have to feel "interrogated." Try it, you may be happily surprised at how much better things may work out.</p>
<p>This is such a great thread on this board! I've gotten more support here than from my husband (certainly), my younger son, my parents, or any of my friends. I don't even really know how to thank everyone.</p>
<p>As for the holiday, yeah, its the not the best we've ever had... and its not because my S is falling off the religious wagon as someone suggested. He's actually much more observant than I am... he's begun attending Fri night Shabbat dinner/services each week so far, he's gone to all the Hillel holiday services, and of course, he will fast today, as will his brother & dad, but not me. And he is taking excused absences from his classes today. He would never dream of going to class on Yom Kippur. That's not to say he won't watch movies in his dorm.... but he also wouldnt' go shopping. Its your typical hypocritical secular conservative jew. Which is why I'm on my computer now.</p>
<p>But 2 things occurred to me yesterday, and maybe this will help all of us. </p>
<p>First: I realized that I was so consumed with him being mad at me... why is he mad at me? What did I do? What can I do to make him less mad at me? When I realized, "Hey! I'm mad at him!" How can he treat me this way? That's very empowering. Yes, we can be mad at our kids. And not just because they forgot to walk to dog or take out the garbage. I think of this as giving him what he wants. If you want to be an adult (I know, I keep coming back to this theme), then you can be treated as one. Warts and all. And your mom really can be mad at you.</p>
<p>Second: This is kind of like dating. Remember when, oh those 20+ years ago (or more recently for those who are on the 2nd time around). When you're starting a new relationship? Is it too soon to call? Why didn't (s)he call me? Did I say the right thing? the wrong thing? Did I ask to many questions? Will (s)he call again? I suppose its just setting the parameters of a new relationship. </p>
<p>And it really sucks. I didn't like it then, and I certainly like it less now, when its with someone I clearly love more than anything else in the world. There's a lot more at stake.</p>
<p>Well... gotta go. S2 just shouted down that I gave him the wrong pants for temple. Always our faults, isn't it?</p>
<p>Later.</p>
<p>Jennsmom,</p>
<p>My D uses a white noise machine in addition to ear plugs. She says the machine really helps. But my D has a single and doesn't have to worry about roomates. But if roomates would like to give the machine, they aren't all that expensive. Sharper Image and Brookstone have them on-line.</p>
<p>Thanks, everyone for your help and encouragement. I was having a bad day yesterday for some reason. I really have seen this all before in spades--one day during my daughter's college orientation week she took a spill from a stage and was taken to the hospital. She never even called to tell us and I heard about it from one of her friends here (halfway across country.) When I finally reached her--after numerous calls--she was upset that I was interrupting something she was doing. This behaviour persisted for about a semester before she finally started to come around. As she matured, she was quite good about checking in, but when it was convenient for HER, and that is still true today, two years post graduation. She calls in airports waiting for luggage, in subways waiting for trains, in taxis--all very difficult times to carry on conversation. Then she gets a call or spots someone and she has to call me back----right. So why I am so upset about my son? I think it is because he and I had been such close partners with the music--the constant performing, auditioning, quest for the right equipment. I was very connected and emotionally involved with what he was doing every step of the way, and now I completely out of the picture, kinda cold turkey (smile) . I don't even have a real impression of how things are going, other than his standard response, "fine." He wants his space, needs it apparently and is determined to have it and so it is. I'll live. It's just hard some days, so I do appreciate the shoulders. My husband did the calling yesterday, finally. Two calls, no answer, no return call. He called from the house phone though, so the kid probably thought it was me. My husband did not leave messages or use his cell phone as I asked. Both are on my knucklehead list.</p>
<p>As for parent weekend, I will probably go. I know I can find plenty to do in NYC, so if all else falls through, I have a little personal R&R. To the OP, don't be too discouraged, it will get better. These kids do come around, and as another poster said, what have we done to them besides love and care for them the best we possibly could? Now we just have to pick ourselves up, dust off and let them revel in their first real taste of freedom.</p>
<p>
[quote]
This is kind of like dating. Remember when, oh those 20+ years ago (or more recently for those who are on the 2nd time around). When you're starting a new relationship? Is it too soon to call? Why didn't (s)he call me? Did I say the right thing? the wrong thing? Did I ask to many questions? Will (s)he call again? I suppose its just setting the parameters of a new relationship.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This makes me smile and seems right on. We are establishing the parameters of a new relationship to them as individual, independent adults. Hence the "initial phase" roller coaster. Even though we once knew their intimate bodily functions ,we are not entitled to an intimate relationship with them as adults. That relationship has to develop over time, like any other adult relationship that endures. Both parties have to negotiate it and it is hard and gradual work (AND we each are doing it while still doing everything else we do--and when we can interrupt the process by falling back into the "old" relationship that hasn't altogether disappeared either.) (Mom, where are my xxxx??? )</p>
<p>NYmom
"Its your typical hypocritical secular conservative jew" -- behavior probably not atypical in your typical hypocritical needy independent teen :)</p>
<hr>
<p>Hi everyone,
Hi, I am brand new to the board and I am feeling very glad, as I read through the posts, that I found this source of support. Our only child, our daughter, started her freshman year almost 6 weeks ago, and I am going through all of the sense of loss and sadness that has been described here. I have been, as many of us are, reading about "letting Go" etc as I try to normalize the process we are experiencing with our daughter. She and I have always been very close, although I have made a diligent, and I think, an effective effort to discourage her from feeling somehow responsible for me or for filling in any gaps in my life. She had a very involved high school experience with many many friends and activities, and was gone a fair amount on the weekends.</p>
<p>She seems to be making a good adjustment ie. grades are good, has made many friends already, busy socially at least on the weekends. She does call home about every other day, but when she does, there is a different quality to her conversation, as if she really wants to keep it short and not give any details. I have even been aware that a couple of times, she has called when there are clearly other people around and she almost sounds as if she is trying to impress her new friends with how nonchalant she can be with me. I text message her rather than calling her.....I let her be the one to call when she thinks its a good time for her. Someone insightful said on here ( forgive me I didn't notice the name) that this experience is a lot like dating where each party is trying to strategize! LOL So true. I believe in my heart that after all we have done for our children, the majority of them will "come back around" at some point and let us in more than they are doing at this point. I am aware that my daughter is trying to be "cool" and I'm allowing it to hurt my feelings. The only time we seem to have a "real" conversation is when she needs to dump some frustration, apparently a very common freshman year phenomenon. Sigh....this is a thankless period in our parenting of them isn't it? Thank you for listening. I want to end by noticing what many of us probably realize, that they probably have little realization of how hard this is for us. Sometimes I struggle with whether to confront her about her currently "cool" communication with us or just leave it alone with the hope she will mature out of it.</p>
<p>mmaah wrote (Even though we once knew their intimate bodily functions ,we are not entitled to an intimate relationship with them as adults. That relationship has to develop over time, like any other adult relationship that endures. Both parties have to negotiate it and it is hard and gradual work .... </p>
<p>You are probably correct, to some degree. However, i wish to add a quick retort to your observation: From a selfish perspective, I hope that your hypothesis is not correct. I say this somewhat rhetorically, and definitely selfishly. What i mean is this: Sometimes, certain adult relationships are not worth all the trouble that it takes to maintain them. Some co-workers are wonderful, others can be a real pain in the kazoo.. Some neighbors are wonderful, and I would give them the shirt off my back. Others, I would just as soon avoid any contact with them. </p>
<p>As for family, and specifially our kids, in the big scheme of things, it has always been nice to be able to go home to the family, and "let your hair down". Sure, there are struggles within families, but when there is stress elsewhere (work, etc.), I have always found my family to be a place of refuge, so to speak. Good support, laugh at my dumb jokes, listen to my boring stories, etc. So, given my selfish preferences, i really do not want to add my children to a list of "difficult people to deal with". Selfishly, i want them to remain as a "given" - if you know what i mean? In reality, what you say may be true to some degree, and i may end up negotiating (as we already are with phone calls) but i do not relish that notion. Make sense?</p>
<p>Makes sense, helms, but hoping your children will remain as your refuge might be wishful thinking for American parents. These kids are on a journey of individualism. It's a national quest. Over 1M students start the quest every year. </p>
<p>If you don't want your boy to go into the difficult pile, adjust your expectations. For you, the most important adjustment may be this: His irritability probably has nothing to do with you.</p>
<p>In my opinion, you are taking his irritability or shortness too personally when you have no idea what went on in his day--or what is happening in the next five minutes. In an email, explain that you would like to keep the calls positive. Ask if you can negotiate an honest signal such as "Dad, I cannot talk right now." And a second one: "Dad, try to call me again in twenty minutes but if I don't answer, it's because I've had to run to something."</p>
<p>You need a system of understanding his time pressures so that you can arrange to have pleasant, loving calls. </p>
<p>If you do not adjust your expectations, you may end up with a son in a lifelong 'too hard' basket. Many American families have such sons. My father had all four of my brothers in that basket when they were younger. None of them really came out of it fully. Part of the fault is in their communication styles, but much of the fault is in the American system of emphasizing individuality over community or family.</p>
<p>cheers - thanks. I appreciate the response. However, I think you may have taken my stance much too literally. As I indicated above, i made the statement rhetorically, meaning that i was 'voicing' my thoughts. As I indicated, we already are negotiating with him (currently over phone calls) and i think my statement implied that it will be an ongoing process. </p>
<p>As for what happened last night, yes, i concede that i over reacted, or more accurately, i overstated how i felt. If you re-read my post from last night, you will read that I was tired (and I was frustrated) I posted before i had a chance to really think. </p>
<p>As for my comments today, it is possible for things to be grey (not always black and white). On the one hand, i really do want my family (wife, son, and daughter) to be a group - wherein we can all be ourselves and feel accepted. It is a two-way street, we will always welcome them, wherevery they are, no matter what they have done. (I could, but will not, give you a very real real-life example of how that has already happened within our family, wherein we completely accepted our son in spite of a very trying situation in the not too distant past). That's all, i mean nothing more, and nothing less. Acceptance and love. There is a LOT to be said for having an accepting loving family. That, in no way implies that i do not want or expect him to grow up and mature into his own individuality. Quite the contrary, I do expect, and i do want for him to grow into his own self - whatever that may be. However, i do hope that he will continue to consider us his team, just as we will consider him as part of our team. And, I do not think it is unreasonable for me to hope that we do not have to completely re-invent our relationship. I kind of went back and forth within this paragraph, but hopefully you can see that it is possible to want both things, and that they are not necessarily in opposition with each other. Make sense?</p>
<p>I do not completely understand what you meant by a lifelong "too hard" basket. I would like to hear more - if you care to share. (are you referring to inflexability?) </p>
<p>You say "much of the fault is in the American system of emphasizing individuality over community or family". I am confused. Earlier, you indicate the importance of individuality, and in the end, you indicate a fault within individuality. The problem is me, not you, that i just didn't get your point. Can you restate it, so that i can better undertsand your position.</p>
<p>thanks</p>
<p>Spelmom,
I completely get the "cut off feeling". My son has an LD -- you might say he has a pretty bad case of a very minor (luckily) LD. Because of that, so much of his school career involved me. We were partners in navigating the problem: early on it was identifying it, for the duration it was developing compensation skills, and finally, advocating for him. His school officials have said he's the best student advocate they've ever seen. He fights for what he needs, as well as what he believes is necessary for all LD students. He's been held up as a model of the self-advocating HS LD student. So yeah, I feel very left out. </p>
<p>In the past, I knew everything he did (I think). He didn't have a great social life. If he wasn't with his religious youth group, or working in the school TV studio, he was home with me. We certainly had our turbulent years.... and in recent times, turbulent moments, so I'm not trying to say all was peacefull all the time, but I really thought we were over the hump and doing well.</p>
<p>I'm killing myself here not IMing him... I want to know, did he go to services today, how was his fast, if he's watching Studio 60 with friends tonight. I keep telling him he finally has the life I've always known he's deserved. Sorry... I selfishly want to be part of it. But if I IM him, he'll block me. I know that when he sees I'm online at the same time as him, I'm earning "credits" for not interferring. Hi-tech long distance parenting. It's all a numbers game.</p>
<p>Its about me. Not him. It seems from reading everyone's posts.... it's about all of us, and not them. But I'm the one who's making myself sick.</p>
<p>What are we supposed to do to figure this out? </p>
<p>As I said before, it's a lot like dating. But we've already been hopelessly in love with these kids for 18 years. </p>
<p>Well, back to temple.</p>
<p>helms, i understand where you're coming from, but you have to realize that if he wants to talk to you about something, he will. hence the call the other night at 11:30pm. it's really hard for a college kid to schedule a weekly call.. trust me, i know from experience. if they have something to say, they will.</p>
<p>NYmom,</p>
<p>Painful as the separation can be at times, then, what a joy and a credit to the hard work you both put in during his HS years that he is now able to be independent, thriving and happy! The truth is, if our kids were desperately unhappy and needing us, in most cases we would be hearing about it and we would be here trying to help each other decide whether and when and how we should intervene. But ironically (and thankfully), we are here consoling each other because our kids are off following paths of their choosing, enjoying new and exciting experiences and making new friends-- or if not doing quite that well, at least trying to deal with their issues on their own. That's what we raised them to do; now we have to find it within ourselves to back off and let them do it.</p>
<p>Helms, I din't intend my post as scolding--don't worry! Most of us have those back and forth agonies. Those are the worry lines on our forehead, eh?</p>
<p>My father was/is a demanding sort of fellow. When he felt his demands were not properly met, he conveyed more anger and disappointment than was appopriate, given the circumstances. He burnt the bridge that extended between him and my brothers. Over the years, it was partially rebuilt but it is a wobbly little walking bridge rather than something you could drive trucks over.</p>
<p>My husband, on the other hand, is the master of diplomacy. He manages his own emotions very well. His communications to his boys are rarely infused with his needs. His words are measured. He has infinite patience. He is always available but he often waits for the boys to initiate the contact--from phone calls to wrestling on the living room floor. His relationship with both boys is very warm and it always will be. He has built a bridge between them that can withstand a couple of steam rollers and a few 18 wheelers.</p>
<p>I write about individuality becasue I sense that you may have cultural expectations from another country? Is that a good guess? My family arrived in the US in 1642 so I am well-conditioned to the American practice of launching children into highly individual paths. Not that I am without worries (will we ever live inthe same country again?), but my adjustment is easier than my Korean friend who expected to keep her children closer during their late teens and early adulthood. Your difficulties may have more to do with adjusting your cultural expectations to the American system that you live in--rather than searching for problems in the relationship with your son. To me, he is acting very much like a typical American boy--busy, preoccupied with his individuality, mobile. </p>
<p>Finally, there will come a time when your son needs you again. When he runs up against some wqall, he will re-discover who 'has his back', as the kids say. There isn't a need to rush that process or force it. The sense of 'team' happens as kids make mistakes and fall over. It happens when you give advice on how to get back up again. </p>
<p>That's just my opinion though. Feel free to ignore it!</p>
<p>cheers - thanks for the response. So clever, you think you are - as Yoda might say. :-)</p>
<p>I'll one up you - since you brought it up. I am related to William Brewster, who came over on the Mayflower in 1620 (22 years prior to your family coming to America). My family might have wecolmed your family to this country. I belong to the Mayflower Society (both National and State Chapters). In summary, I think we can agree on the fact that it is fun to be from a lineage that has been in America so long. I feel proud to be associated with such ancestors, and i sense that you do also. Congrats to you.</p>
<p>For what it is worth, my son called last night after i went to bed (which was after i had typed my post last night). </p>
<p>Also, as i began this response to your post, he called, yet again, to ask if we would bring something to him, during our planned visit this month. </p>
<p>I do appreciate your kind and thoughtful comments. Our bridge to our son is also a strong one. </p>
<p>My wife and I are, however, human, and therefore we are not perfect. We have weaknesses, and we make mistakes (and that is very ok with me). One thing that i learned years ago, is that we ALL make mistakes. I could have, and should have been more patient last night. But, initially, i wasn't. I was frustrated, because, dang it, i really wanted to talk to my son. I did not mention it to him, i posted my thoughts on this thread. Is that so bad, to feel some emotions and actually express it to someone? </p>
<p>I am glad for you, and your husband that he manages his emotions so expertly. That is wonderful for you and for you family. You must have mostly calm sailing. God speed to you, and to your family.</p>
<p>:-)</p>