We miss him, Maybe he doesn't miss us. ?

Parents Forum
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<p>Our S doesn't e-mail us at all, but he does talk from time to time (more now than when he 1st got to campus). He also IMs his sister, who is still in HS. We're getting more comfortable about his level of contact/non-contact. He & his dad have had some nice long chats--more than when he's at home even, so that's all good.</p>

<p>It really all works out -- we parents are pretty flexible folks as a whole & just want our kids to be healthy & happy & getting a good education with some interesting experiences along the way.</p>

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<p>My son thinks we are crazy (I more than my wife). He doesn't understand or doesn't want to understand the loss we feel, and discussing the problem, in a way I do not consider accusatory (but he probably does), hasn't helped. </p>

<p>IMing has been suggested as a solution, but it is also part of the problem. He will only communicate via IMing, and IMing is simply a lousy medium of communication. It just plain is, especially when the conversation turns to anything complex or ambiguous. It's even worse than e-mail in that respect. Somehow it also encourages preemptory "good nights" or even unexpected sign-offs, leaving me to wonder whether I intruded or he was insulted or this is just part and parcel of the IM culture. To me, it feels like he's hung up the telephone. It seems rude. </p>

<p>In any case, I miss my boy terribly, and he probably has no idea how many of his friends' parents are going through the same thing. (I think it is generally true that boys don't talk to each other about anything of consequence. My son has always been laconic, shall we say.) The longevity of this thread is proof enough of that. But someone wrote that we should not be burdening our kids with this knowledge. Why, I wonder, should this necessarily be a burden? A little understanding might even help HIM -- take some of the pressure off him. Why not send him the first post in this thread and tell him he can read a whole year of it if he has any doubts. Theoretically, if he were aware that this phenomenon is not exclusive to his family, he might feel less threatened. I say "theoretically" because other things I've said and done, convinced they were reasonable and noninvasive (like asking "how was the movie?"), have nevertheless managed to offend. So let me ask: why should I NOT make him aware of this thread so he will understand that we are not crazy? Shouldn't this be a part of his growth process -- dealing with the typical reactions parents have when their children leave home? </p>

<p>I've weathered my son's first year in college somewhat better than I expected to. But what I expected, what I experienced initially, and what I still experience periodically, is pretty bad. In our house, mom is handling the lack of communicativeness better than I am. But she's a different person than me. (Some men are from Venus and some women are from Mars. Whatever, I mean the opposite of the title of that book.) Our situation is complicated by the fact that my son and I had our problems before his departure that neither "talking things out" resolved (he finds the very concept offensive or maybe just hopeless) nor events helped to ameliorate. </p>

<p>I mention "events" because some of my own disarry is beyond my doing: he is going to a school he didn't want to go to because I lost my job when my company decided to dump 7,000 people after a scandal. I have simply not been able to replace the lost income and, at my age, probably never will. This situation erupted during his last year in high school and it has hurt our family in all the obvious ways, also compounding the emotionality involved in saying "good bye" instead of "good night." </p>

<p>I frankly don't know if there is blame involved (his blaming the turn in his fortunes on me), as he would probably not admit it if it were so. But I grieve for my loss, and matters are only made worse if that grief rises to the surface (and gives the appearance to him that I blame HIM for failing to act "normally" towards me). </p>

<p>I hope this makes sense. I guess I'm combining two issues into one, but I would like to hear responses to either or both: </p>

<p>1, Why should he not be informed that his parents (both of us) are not crazy? He won't just take our word for it. But this thread speaks eloquently. And:</p>

<ol>
<li>How do I deal with the fact that this particular parent IS...well, a little bit crazy? Is it too much to ask that he have (and show) some understanding? While he is learning more about the world, why shouldn't he also be learning more about his parents -- including the fact that his dad, who would still take that proverbial bullet for him, is flawed and vulnerable, much like he is. Isn't that part of his growing-up process? I don't expect him to be my therapist or job counselor, just a loving son.</li>
</ol>

<p>He will be coming home for the summer. I look forward to it, but I also know it may not be very pretty if we cannot establish some kind of foundation for our relationship. The issue of separation that is the subject of this entire thread did not just start with college. It began with the onset of the teen years. It is within the range of normal. He didn't communicate much with us in his high school years either. It just gets harder, not easier. What are WE going to be like this summer -- especially if I am still out of work?! </p>

<p>Thoughts?</p>

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<p>Dad23, your son will come to realize all you want him to realize. But he needs to come to it himself. He won't believe it just because you tell him it's so. Be patient, it will be a lot sweeter in a few years if you step back and let him mature and then come back to you. He WILL recognize all you've done for him and all you've suffered, but he will do it in his own time.</p>

<p>I am sorry for your job loss. Our culture treats employees like crap, IMHO, and it wasn't always this way. Do you have any access to therapy/counseling to help deal with anger? Good luck.</p>

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<p>Dad23,
I can feel your pain. Does your S blame you and the loss of job for his not being able to attend a college of his choice? Is he unhappy where he is still? If so, perhaps you could encourage him to transfer and, given the financial situation, he would be eligible for more financial aid?</p>

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<p>Hi all. I drove yesterday to where our son's college is located. His last final is today, and I pick him up in about 5-6 hours from now. What a year it has been. We are thrilled that the year is over, and we are eager to have him home this summer.</p>

<p>In a recap, he still does not call much. He never did adapt to the once/week call system that some families adopted. He mainly calls when he needs something, or has a question. We enjoy the calls - regardless of what prompted the call. </p>

<p>Probably the biggest change has been that his attitude has improved. In the Fall (2006), we were taken by surprise at how cold and distant he seemed towards us. Now, he is more cheerful, more verbose [on those occasions in which we contact him]. He jokes again (like in the good ole high school days). We enjoy the closeness but we realize that it will never be like is was (prior to this past year), but then we would not want to go back in time anyway. He has matured. He has moved onto the next phase of his life. There will no doubt be more frustrations next Fall, but hopefully we have learned enough along the way, so that we will be better prepared for next year. (We hear that things continue to get better, as they get older. We are hopeful).</p>

<p>Regards, and best wishes to all.</p>

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<p>You've expressed the sentiments felt by our family very well. Glad you'll soon be reunited with your S. We are thrilled our S will be home Sunday morning & able to join us for Mother's Day dinner. He also has been thriving at his chosen U.</p>

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<p>Later today I will be picking up my son at school. I grieved his “loss.” Now I dread his return. </p>

<p>I've complained about his behavior during the year and told he would come around in his time. Maybe I’m a stubborn kind of fellow, but I’d like a solution before I croak! “He’ll come around in his time” just isn’t very consoling when I am facing 3-4 months of strained relations. Is there really a consensus here that THERE SIMPLY ARE NO WORDS THAT CAN BE UTTERED ALOUD THAT TOUCH ON MATTERS OF CONSEQUENCE – INCLUDING MATTERS OF ATTITUDE? </p>

<p>Also, what message is "don't say anything" sending?! Is that what the experts are telling us these days? I doubt if a little respect and some polite conversation is asking too much. The problem is that asking for respect and asking for a heart-to-heart are greeted the same way: as unwelcome intrusions. How soft has this generation of parents gone? </p>

<p>My job loss is responsible for the fact that he is not going to a school of his choice (that and the fact that his scholarship money was insufficient). Does he blame me? I would think so, but I shouldn’t ask, should I? He will say NO and then be insulted that I asked – even if it’s true. Yet he will continue to make the point that he is going to school with "dummies" (at Rutgers!). There's a message in that, it seems to me. </p>

<p>On a couple of visits during the year, his mother actually asked him whether his missed us, and got no response. I know that at 18 I had little use for hart-to-hearts with my mother. But if he doesn’t miss us, and we are to accept that, is it too much to ask that he VALUES us.</p>

<p>How am I going to make it through the summer?! I've complained about the inadequacy of IMing, but it does create a buffer. Are we supposed IM from separate rooms? Across the kitchen table?</p>

<p>Thank you, Helms2Lee, for opening this thread. I expect to make use of it as events progress. I doubt if I will be the only one to welcome back his morphed (matured?) kid and face new communications challanges.</p>

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<p>Dad23,</p>

<p>I feel for you in your situation. Let me respond with a couple of quick thoughts. </p>

<p>First, I am no expert, nor have a found a system or approach that works. I can say at this moment, our situation is better today, then it was when we started this thread. I am certain we will have difficult days ahead this summer, and next Fall may bring more days of frustration.</p>

<p>I will pass on a few words to you , not as advice - since i am no expert - but as words to ponder. Some have been expressed to me by a couple of friends, and others come from this thread.</p>

<p>First, I think it is acceptable for you to express your feelings to him. However, i also think it matters how MUCH you say, and it matters what MESSAGE you are trying to send (or not). Let me clarify, I think it is acceptable, and i encourage you, to simply and succinctly tell him that you miss him - or that you missed him all year. (that is acceptable, and i sense it is the truth).</p>

<p>If, however, you want/need to hear the same from him, than you need to leave that desire deep down inside your own thoughts. If he senses that you want to, or need to, hear some specific response from him, then he might not respond at all, or might not respond with what you want to hear. But if you just leave it as "I reallly missed you (and hope that you had a great year)", then you have said what you needed to say. Leave it be with that.</p>

<p>Secondly, love and acceptance is stronger than many other emotions. If you show him that you love him, if you show him that you accept him, he might just "take a step in your direction". </p>

<p>I say this, not as an expert, but more as an observer. My wife has always been better with him, at withholding her expectations, and just accepting him (or at least, making the best possible effort to do so). He then opens up to her, more often than to me. So, when i approach him with unconditional love and acceptance, he has been more willing to approach me, talk to me, etc. Believe me, this is a "work in progress", and i fail as often as i get it right. Maybe i fail less often that i used to. But I'll tell you, those times when we connect, dang it makes it all worthwhile. </p>

<p>As for him reading this thread, I am not against it, but I wonder if it will accomplish as much as you expect it to. If you want him to read it so he will respond to you the way that you want him to, then i say no, don't have him read the thread. If, however, you simply want him to know that Parents often really miss their kids, then maybe it is ok. I think what is more important is that you tell him how you feel (that you missed him), and that you tell him that you love him. And let that be it.</p>

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<p>Dad...hang in there dude...and keep reminding yourself that there is good value in maintaining the bridge. Whatever you do--don't burn the bridge by saying something in fury--or self-pity. This is what our parents did to us. In my family, the bridges between my father and his boys never recovered fully.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Where is your son getting his 'withholding' behavior? Do you or your wife ever retreat in a similar manner? Grandparents? If so, think about the behavior he is modelling and what sort of gentle methods you could use to get beyond the barriers.</p></li>
<li><p>My father had to quit college for a year after his father lost his job and then had a nervous breakdown. He's 76 now, but he's still bitter. Physiologically, humans may be programmed to expect their fathers to provide for them--and when it doesn't happen--all sorts of insecurities flood into the vacuum--even irrational insecurities and irrational anger. Allow him to experience those emotions--and try sharing your emotions without an agenda in mind. You must have ongoing grief regarding that financial hiccup. Anyway, he's nearly an adult now. Youa re getting closer to reaching an adult to adult relationship. He's probably more ready than you are--as you were more ready than your mother.</p></li>
<li><p>When children are first born, they love you as much as you love them--but then, in a weird design twist from the heavens, each moment of their lives brings a greater imbalance to their relationship to their parents. Their love priorities change. Day by day of childhood, their overwhelming love for their parent softens. Meanwhile the parent's love for the child stays strong--or even intensifies. This is all by 'design', if you will. I don't love my parents nearly as much as I love my husband or my children--or even some of my close friends. I love them and I am close to them but not as close as my other loving relationships. By the same token, I love my children WAY more than they love me--and I accept that status. </p></li>
<li><p>Males are territorial pack animals. When he is in your home--he is not in 'his' territory--he's in yours. It is perfectly natural for him to chafe and snarl at that reality--just as it is natural for you to react to the intrusion of a testosterone-stoked young man. My suggestion is to find ways to meet on neutral territory. Those heart to heart talks probably aren't going to happen at 'your' kitchen table--he's too busy freaking out that he's suddenly back where he started at age 5--but they might happen on a canoe trip--or a trip to New York--or over a five course meal at a nice restaurant--or on a hike. </p></li>
<li><p>If my son was unhappy at being 'relegated' to Rutgers--I'd brainstorm with him about how to improve the situation. Thinking out of the box. Year off. Semesters abroad. Whatever would open up the feeling of being confined to second best. Are there any possiblities that could be uncovered if all options were put on the table? Wouldhe be comforted to know that you were still thinking about his higehre amibitions--how to get to A from B?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Those are my thoughts--they may or may not be helpful. Good luck.</p>

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<p>cheers--good advice. I particularly liked your observation on parents loving children way more than they love us. I was thinking similar thoughts recently. It's really too bad we know our kids as they improve in every way, whereas our kids only know us as people who are getting older, frailer, and probably not as quick-witted! Ha--they shoulda seen me when I had all my marbles/hair/before wrinkles! </p>

<p>The only way to get our revenge is by spoiling our grandchildren rotten. :)</p>

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<p>Dad23, regarding your job loss and "relegation" to Rutgers - ture, you probably don't want to ask him, but do you regret that you couldn't send him to his first choice? I sense you do. You can tell him that. "You know, I'm glad you had a good year. I know it's been tough, and I really wish I could have sent you to your first choice." Let him know that parents can also regret not being able to support their children fully.</p>

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<p>Lots of good suggestions. I would say to give him some space, listen first and speak second, and tell him you missed him and you fell like you let him down not being able to send him to his first choice, and let it go for awhile. He is probably as uptight about coming home and dealing with feeling/emotions as you are. </p>

<p>Let meals together be quiet at first. Let him speak, and if he doesn't want to, let them be quiet and peaceful at first. Hold back, and let him see you are not going to gang up on him about the lack of communication.</p>

<p>And then try to get him away from the table for talking time--a dinner out, a hike, a trip to the city.</p>

<p>Try hard to hold back, give him space, and let him realize that you have "chilled" a bit about things. If you "chill", he will probably warm up. I have learned this from D2. I finally realized that her telling me (yelling at me) to chll was really what I needed to do. I have no luck drawing things out of her. The harder I try to get something across or get her to talk, the more she clams up and disappears into her room with the door (slammed) shut. The more I act comfortable and almost aloof about what is going on in her head, the more she opens up and talks. Girls are different, but D2 sounds alot like your son. And I have learned to chill. As much as it pains me...</p>

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<p>My oldest D went off the school in NYC in August, 2006 and we hardly heard from her. We were very upset that she didn't call or want to talk when we called her. It wasn't until Parents Weekend in October that we understood. NYU had a panel discussion moderated by the Dean of Housing or some such and made up of 6 or so undergraduates. Each said more or less the same thing to our group of very anxious parents. Basically the message was this: Listen, your child has come to college and is trying to find out who s/he is, is trying to reinvent him/herself. Each contact with home just pulls him/her back to being that person that s/he was. So don't think that your kids don't love you or care about you. This is just what they have to do to start creating their new selves.</p>

<p>What an epiphany! At that point I could remember exactly the feelings I had each time I returned home on college break. I couldn't understand why my parents treated me the same way they had always treated me and why they couldn't see how much smarter and more mature I was. All it took was this reminder by a fabulous group of NYU undergraduates to make me ease up on my expectations of communications with my D, and now she calls me lots and lots and sometimes even too much.</p>

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<p>Dad23; I am sorry for the despair you are feeling. I think that your son has misinterpreted your sorrow and regret for the results of losing your job as accepting responsibility for the fact that he could not go to his dream college. He feels righteous therefore to blame you and is paying you back by witholding his affection and conversation.</p>

<p>This has very understandably hurt you terribly and you have a need to get a lot off your chest. Your son on the other hand needs to grow up and realise that bad things happen to good people and we have to play the hand we are dealt, not the one we think we should have been dealt. </p>

<p>By wanting to hash things out with him constantly you are perhaps showing him a weakness he doesn't want to see. I think you have lost a lot of confidence and this is affecting everything else. Please stop blaming yourself; is it really the end of the world that he is going to Rutgers...seriously!</p>

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<p>Dad23, now that you have picked up your son, how is it going?</p>

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<p>My sister was having trouble with her high school aged son. When he got suspended from school for a few days for fighting she insisted one of the things he did while at home was write an essay on what happened, and why it happened, and why it wouldn't happen again. Here she was thinking it was all steming from a punishment she had given him earlier or something else she had done. The essay was an eye opener. His life swirled around him, with girl drama and sports drama and classroom drama. Misunderstandings with teachers that from the essays made them sound like the adults in the peanut cartoons from our youth. ("BLAH, BLAH, BLAH"). And his family was just a little spec in the corner of his eye. They weren't the problem, they couldn't be the solution, they were just there.</p>

<p>So, just because you aren't hearing from your child doesn't mean they don't like you, or mad at you, or hold a grudge against you. It possibly means their whole life is changing. They have new friends and new living arrangements, new teachers and new classroom environments, new everything. They are willing to let the one thing that hasn't changed in their life slide a bit, while they tackle all the new stuff.</p>

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<p>Wow. I got a lot of good advice. Now let’s see if I can follow any of it.</p>

<p>Son came home, spent 2 nights at home, then went off with friends on a weekend trip, but promised to return on Mother’s Day. He is a kid whose word is his bond, so, after the brief concern over his intentions, I am confident he will be here. Over the two days, we did not speak much, but neither of us was especially disagreeable. He did whine about how “nothing changes” around here – this was not a compliment – but we just smiled and asked, “What did you expect?” </p>

<p>Helms2Lee wrote: “My wife has always been better with him, at withholding her expectations, and just accepting him (or at least, making the best possible effort to do so). He then opens up to her, more often than to me.” Our pattern exactly. It is heartening to know that some other fathers are quicker to feel disappointed, and quicker to express it, than their wives. It is hugely hurtful to hear my boy ask his mom about matters he has every reason to believe I know more about than she does. What he gets from her is advice. It may be impractical advice, but it is not JUDGMENT, which carries the risk of a bad review. I understand that my son is not open to bad reviews. His “show” is still on the road. But I have to admit, I’d also like to put up a sign that says NO JUDGMENTS PLEASE. </p>

<p>Cheers wrote: “I love my children WAY more than they love me--and I accept that status.” You know what’s crazy? I wanted a family, but all my education and experience could not teach me, until the reality hit me, that I was in the adult manufacturing business. A family means a wife and kids. Kids. Not adults. Should I expect an imbalance in the intensity of love felt? It makes sense. It certainly conforms to my own life experience. But I realize I’m just not equipped yet. It is my nature to be open and direct – and not critical. A friend said there’s no such thing as constructive criticism. If that were true, that would be bad enough. But is it also true that there’s no such thing as a noninvasive question (at least when posed to a college freshmen/sophomore)? </p>

<p>Sunnyflorida wrote: “The harder I try to get something across or get her to talk, the more she clams up and disappears into her room with the door (slammed) shut. The more I act comfortable and almost aloof about what is going on in her head, the more she opens up and talks. Girls are different, but D2 sounds a lot like your son. And I have learned to chill.” Well, there’s the rub. Over my son’s spring break, I “chilled” for 5 days, then asked one question too many about the movie he went to see: EXPLOSION. We let him come and go as he pleases – although he did take the car the other day without asking (I brought the issue up with him quietly and settled it civilly. And we let him go off on his weekender with minimal questions. He’s a responsible kid. But does “chilling” mean not asking ANYTHING if he doesn’t want to answer?</p>

<p>Natmicstef wrote: “By wanting to hash things out with him constantly you are perhaps showing him a weakness he doesn't want to see. I think you have lost a lot of confidence and this is affecting everything else. Please stop blaming yourself; is it really the end of the world that he is going to Rutgers...seriously!” He had a fine year academically (all As, one B in the fall semester). He’s fully expecting to go back to Rutgers and is not really complaining about it. As for showing him weakness, I think you’ve nailed it. We start out as Gods to our kids no matter how flawed we are, and when, as teenagers, they begin to discover our weaknesses, they can’t really integrate this knowledge into their view of us. A little perspective – “cutting dad some slack” – would be nice. But I guess they’re too busy, even before college, trying to integrate their new selves into their old selves. It’s just too bad that he has to learn about the real me when he is otherwise engaged and can’t process the information without feeling bothered or, worse, disapproving.</p>

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<p>Dad23, it sounds like your son believes on a deep, fundamental level, that you do not approve of him. I went through that in part with my D: there is one life area in which I disagree with her. It took a lot of compliments and nonjudgmental conversations over several years for us to get past that. Advice from a therapist also helped. It just isn't worth ruining a relationship over something you cannot change. My D and I are now close; she calls me 3-4 times each week.</p>

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<p>Dad23.. hang in there.</p>

<p>Just wanted to add that boys have to break away from their fathers in order to become men and this is generally the age that happens. They have to come up with their own identity which really means breaking from you. Some do this with the intense fight which gets it over with fast but maybe too much damage; others long and drawn out which is low level pain for longer. </p>

<p>The problem that compounds this need for independence is his reliance on you for money. Anything he can't pay for and has to ask you for help holds him back. Very frustrating for guys! But it is another source of his frustration.</p>

<p>It's tough. You are his role model. Not his mom. You may not believe it but you are and he is watching everything you do to see how you handle it and see how a man acts. When he hits about 25 he will be coming to you for advice as a man. Yes, you will be in shock :) You are still dealing with the boy. Stick to the few rules that are the most important to you and let the rest slide. You have to let him go...so he can come back to you. Model the best husband and person you can be and it will come back to you. Good luck.</p>

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<p>thanks for this post. i will definitely remember to call my parents regularly when i go to uni..</p>